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Arm China Has Gone Rogue

semianalysis.substack.com

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Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#401

Post by makeitdouble »

cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

> The Chinese government will ensure that no Western competitor will "win" in China. Period.

Isn’t it the MO of any country that wants to go ahead ?

Wasn’t born during the period, but I know of the US’ Japanese bashing in the 80s and pulling all the levers to stop foreign companies from getting dominant in the car market. As far as I know Toyota & co had to bring manufacturing to the US to get a foothold, and I get the feeling China has just made that a policy from the start instead of going throught all the cycle.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#403

Post by onethought »

civilized wrote: post #387

China has been doing this for, what, 30-40 years now? How is this news? It is astonishing to me how many people have been, apparently, sleeping under a rock for decades, and are just now announcing their bitter realizations that China is not a free market open to Western companies. Hillary Clinton did one of these announcements within the past year or so, and my eyes rolled right out of the back of my head.

So China invented paper, printing and gunpowder.

That’s pretty significant IP theft… no one talks about it.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#404

Post by stevespang »

evancox100 wrote: post #393

I’m not saying this development is good, but didn’t ARM UK / SoftBank lose control of ARM China 3 years ago when they sold 51% of it and became a minority shareholder? Not being in control comes along with the minority shareholder status. The fact that ARM China CEO refused to step down is kind of irrelevant, the remaining 51% shareholders could just replace the board with whomever and install whomever they want as C…

Well, at least the ARM Mothership has refused to send any of the new chip designs over the China wall . . . all ARM China has got is old stale garbage now.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#405

Post by gruez »

Phileosopher wrote: post #287

This is difficult to parse in my Western mind. I've grown up with a constant understanding of implicit liberties, so much so that I have the freedom to openly _discuss_ my general distrust of the government. The events that float by in HN are outliers: threats of more risk, but statistically unusual enough that they're stories of interest. This means that living and acting in a country where your very _thoughts_ are…

> This is difficult to parse in my Western mind.

>How do you live and decide with a government over you that can grab control at any time they wish?

You don't. That's why chinese millionaires/billionaires are parking (at least some of) their wealth outside of china so it's safe from expropriation by the chinese government. Also, this isn't limit to china. It's the default state of affairs when rule of law and property rights isn't respected (ie. most developing countries).

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#406

Post by civilized »

redtexture wrote: post #398
civilized wrote: post #387

China has been doing this for, what, 30-40 years now? How is this news? It is astonishing to me how many people have been, apparently, sleeping under a rock for decades, and are just now announcing their bitter realizations that China is not a free market open to Western companies. Hillary Clinton did one of these announcements within the past year or so, and my eyes rolled right out of the back of my head.

Photo of back of head desired.

I'm having trouble pointing the camera.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#407

Post by Supermancho »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #385
refenestrator wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that nobody was threatened or, as a result, morally offended by China until the last few years when we figured out we couldn't keep them at the bottom of the value chain forever. How do we live in a society where we can just be aimed at a new foreign enemy and all of our free, enlightened citizens go along every time? Russia (support afghanistan), Iran (support Iraq), Iraq (support gulf emirates), Al Qaeda,…

That is not true. There have been many reports concerned with China's aggressive efforts at stealing IP for at least 10 years that I'm aware of, probably more like 20.

> There have been many reports concerned with China's aggressive efforts at stealing IP for at least 10 years that I'm aware of, probably more like 20.

Over 20 sounds about right. Definitely since Clinton was in office. The number of times that satellite designs were ripped off was memorable.

There's still various articles that haven't been lost to bitrot.

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/98-485.html

This was hilarious because Congress was asking if the US military was straight up sharing. The reported US designs ending up in Chinese hands was of notable concern to draw a few inquiries.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/missi... et al

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#408

Post by markus_zhang »

exporectomy wrote: post #326
cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

I suspect China doesn't really need western markets in the long term so denying access isn't all that powerful. Their population is the same as the entire OECD combined. They could become an entire "western developed economy" isolated within themselves plus a bunch of 3rd world allies.

Not exactly the case as the western bloc has more middle-class consumers.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#409

Post by hpoe »

tablespoon wrote: post #280
tomp wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? It's the norm in Europe. E.g. you can't work for UK security services (MI5, MI6) unless one of your parents was also British, you lived in the UK for a while and you might be required to give up dual citizenship.

> Are you sure about that? It's the norm in Europe. E.g. you can't work for UK security services (MI5, MI6) unless one of your parents was also British, you lived in the UK for a while and you might be required to give up dual citizenship. I think it's actually similar for US security clearances, though not explicitly codified like that. IIRC, if you're a dual citizen, you have to renounce the non-American one. Appar…

You are correct my brother got denied top secret clearance despite being active duty military because his wife is from a Caribbean nation. To get the right clearance is hard.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#410

Post by amelius »

colinmhayes wrote: post #399
evancox100 wrote: post #393

I’m not saying this development is good, but didn’t ARM UK / SoftBank lose control of ARM China 3 years ago when they sold 51% of it and became a minority shareholder? Not being in control comes along with the minority shareholder status. The fact that ARM China CEO refused to step down is kind of irrelevant, the remaining 51% shareholders could just replace the board with whomever and install whomever they want as C…

The entire board voted with SoftBank to kick this dude out. He literally refuses to step down. There would have to be a lengthy court battle which the board doesn't want.

Because Chinese law allows what dude was doing, a court battle would have been futile.
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