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CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

tibetanreview.net

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Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#221

Post by beaunative »

drocer88 wrote: post #82
beaunative wrote: post #53

Tibetan and Han shared same genetic roots, so does their language (collectively classified as Sino-Tibetan languages). Legendly, in the dawn of human memories, the ancestors of Tibetan lost a tribal war against the ancestors of Han in the east and migrated west to a less-inhabited / less-suitable area as a result.

FYI: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.23291 Note the PCA plot: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/6f245ebd-af27-4633...

600~900 years ago is pre-modern, but it's well documented and hardly legend/mythical times.

The PCA plot only note two genetic variations. You could easily find similar plot just between northern and southern Han.

"Chinese was suggested to split away from Tibeto-Burman around 6 thousand years ago (kya) based on lexical evidence."

This is consistent with the cliche of Chinese having 5000 years of history if we consider the formation of the Chinese language as a foundation for the nation.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41195

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#222

Post by beaunative »

Animats wrote: post #173
curation wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A main reason why so many in the West have taken part in the protests against China is ideological: Tibetan Buddhism, deftly spun by the Dalai Lama, is a major point of reference of the New Age hedonist spirituality which is becoming the predominant form of ideology today. Our fascination with Tibet makes it into a mythic place upon which we project our dreams. When people mourn the loss of the authentic Tibetan way…

"Before 1950 Tibet was no Shangri-la, but a country of harsh feudalism, poverty (life expectancy was barely 30), corruption and civil wars (the last, between two monastic factions, was in 1948 when the Red Army was already knocking at the door). Fearing social unrest and disintegration, the ruling elite prohibited any development of industry, so all metal had to be imported from India." "It seems the Chinese Communis…

Most Chinese don't speak Mandarin per se before the CCP's policy on a mandatory national language, although similarly most people can't read/write either before the same policy.

Mao Zedong himself speak Mandarin with a strong accent judging from the recording of the fouding ceremony of PRC

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#223

Post by beaunative »

uniqueuid wrote: post #81
beaunative wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that time the brits, the colonists had plenty of time to reform, just that no one were ever interested enough in that poor uninhabitable land to pour enough resource to it, even if history repeats itself, no one would. Hell, we hardly do enough in Africa today.

Well this is becoming a very complex argument. We can speculate about the political and economical conditions for reforms, which may not have been present in the UK (not set on that, but possible). But when we look across history and search for desirable models, neither the UK (or any other) colonialism nor modern annexations by totalitarian regimes seem like the best outcome (from an enlightenment/liberal POV).

This is not so complex, it's someone else's backyard. Unless the US or the EU is seriously considering the possibility of pouring money into the conservation of minority languages on the native people of their own land. I'm not convinced.

The idea all culture exist and will all continue to exist as-is is a beautiful, beautiful dream, and also an expensive one. Gentrification is San Francisco is the obviously example of how fragile local cultural groups are in the face of industrial producticity.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#224

Post by notahacker »

cucumb3rrelish wrote: post #196
notahacker wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tendentious, provocative and clichéd claim followed by a couple of Wikipedia quotes. There are many valid criticisms of Chinese actions and objectives in Tibet, but describing it as "exactly the same" as the Nazi approach to lebensraum which was most notable for involving the systematic extermination of the residents is insulting to the intelligence of the average HN reader as well as being likely to attract t…

> Break their lineage, break their roots, break their connections, and break their origins. Completely shovel up the roots of “two-faced people,” dig them out, and vow to fight these two-faced people until the end. Guess who said this? The Chinese official for religious affairs, on his weibo page. They aren't stupid. You don't need guns and executions for extermination of a minority, you can force resettle them acros…

I didn't say the Chinese government was nice, I said it was tendentious, provocative and clichéd to describe its forced assimilation policy as "exactly the same" as the Nazis' approach which involved extermination camps and assumption that the vast majority of Slavs were untermenschen unworthy of being assimilated

The fact your attempt to justify the original comment involves citing some stats related to "counter terrorism" brutality and forced "reeducation" in another region which also does not remotely resemble the Nazi approach to conquest of the East tends to underline this point...

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#225

Post by sangnoir »

sillyquiet wrote: post #162
sangnoir wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States governement is not honoring its treaties with the native peoples to this day. This is not just an artifact of the past, but an ongoing injustice. https://www.history.com/news/native-american-broken-treaties

Sure, ok that sucks. Still not sure why this is the topic of conversation in an article about the CCP treatment of a conquered nation.

You don't see any links with successive US governments treatment of conquered (first) nations? To borrow a Canadian phrase. I think there is value in deep consideration of patterns across time and political ideology, and perhaps draw informed generalizations on certain societal failure modes.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#226

Post by 9999px »

liuliu wrote: post #165
9999px wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are gone. Anti-China sentiment is at a boiling point and I really no longer see objective reporting or discussions. It's infuriating that the US is able to manufacture consent so efficiently.

The reality is more depressing than imagining some central command manufactured this consent. It is just an emerging phenomenon to appease the audiences.

I don't imagine some central command – I understand Gramsci's concept of cultural hegemony and Marx's base/superstructure dialectic. The American people are completely bought into the imperial line, but they still need to be oriented, thus the massive increase in anti-China rhetoric from State Dept affiliated media outlets.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#227

Post by Tycho »

rl3 wrote: post #119
chana_masala wrote: post #57

Lots of seemingly unwarranted gray comments in this thread.

Expected. Threads like these turn into a wasteland of downvotes for a reason. China is a superpower. Superpowers have units dedicated to information warfare. Some of these units deal with controlling discourse and sentiment. HN is a fairly prominent public forum within the tech industry. China wants global influence, particular in the technology sector. It's reasonable to assume they probably have some fairly clever…

Couple weeks ago I made a comment on a story pondering if a certain British tech executive had undisclosed links to the intelligence services. Some people replied and there was interesting discussion. Then the comment (not the story, just my comment) got 'flagged' and is now collapsed by default so that no one further would read it. Rather strange.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28101624

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#228

Post by thereare5lights »

actuator wrote: post #73
Aunche wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Americans who condemn the CCP would be in favor of other nations punishing the US for all their atrocities?

Is it happening right now as we speak? If we go enough back in time every nation has blood on their hands.

Yep

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline_prote...

We're literally still violating treaties with them.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#229

Post by thereare5lights »

bpodgursky wrote: post #55
8note wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a colonial perspective, colonists got everything they wanted it's a good template for anyone looking to take sovereignty over somebody else's land. If you're trying to do that, youre already dropping ethics

Right.. both are bad things. If we could go back in time, we should be telling the US not to abuse and displace the native americans. I'm confused why there's any disagreement here.

Back in time?

Who needs to go back in time? We're literally still abusing them today.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Access_Pipeline_prote...

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#230

Post by rl3 »

tablespoon wrote: post #216
rl3 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the larger platforms do have more focus, although that isn't mutually exclusive with the notion that resources are still allocated to HN. The mandate of these units probably dictates they go wherever the discussion happens to be, especially if that discussion runs contrary to the objectives of the unit's host country. Anecdotally, I've never experienced more rapid, clustered downvotes than in these threads.…

> Anecdotally, I've never experienced more rapid, clustered downvotes than in these threads. Certain keywords tend to be magnets for downvotes, regardless of how tame, well-written, or factual the comment is—to a degree that doesn't square with far more controversial opinions expressed in unrelated threads. 1. Downvotes shouldn't matter to you. 2. I doubt downvotes matter to the 50 cent parties and disinformation tro…

>1. Downvotes shouldn't matter to you.

They typically don't. However, the notion that it could be due to a disingenuous concerted effort makes me feel rather indignant. Downvotes equate to reduced visibility on HN, it's tantamount to a soft silencing. Nobody likes to be unduly silenced.

It's not just me, virtually any comments that criticize a certain regime tend to rapidly sink to the bottom of the thread, and I strongly suspect banality ain't the reason.

>2. I doubt downvotes matter to the 50 cent parties and disinformation trolls of the world, either, if only because a downvote provides so little payoff.

Due to the way HN works, the reduced visibility results in ability to steer the conversation in different directions by expressing preference for friendly or unrelated comments, while inducing volatility in the thread such that it ends up flagged or moved off the main page.

Moreover there's the notion of kinetics. If you take a valid but otherwise true comment and downvote it right after it hits, people are going to pay it less attention. Comments more friendly to whatever objective can then become established as the thread makes its way on to and off of the main page.

In other words, it's pretty low effort and high payoff. The cost is essentially a few dozen accounts above 500 karma, and the reward is you censor or otherwise derail content critical of you on HN. That isn't hard for a government operation.

You could of course still be right. Could be a combination of false equivalency with the U.S. and people thinking stuff like this is conspiracy shit, not knowing any better. All we can do is speculate.

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