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CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

tibetanreview.net

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Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#191

Post by colpabar »

skinkestek wrote: post #169
colpabar wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok sure, replace arab with black then. This whole thread is about poor treatment of ethnic minorities, and the point of the comment I replied to is that we wouldn't tolerate forced sterilization of an ethnic minority group from a country like Israel. My response was that Israel has already done this, and we all seemed to tolerate it just fine.

My point is that you respond to one claim with something else while cutting the context and pretending it is the same. And as I already pointed out the article is pretty clear that there isn't actually convincing evidence, especially not against Israel (it seems to be about a possible rogue NGO or something?)

>My point is that you respond to one claim with something else while cutting the context and pretending it is the same.

Here's the bit I responded to.

>Imagine in Donald Trump wanted non-whites to be forced on birth control in the US or if Israel wanted its Arab population on birth control -- there would be uproars and rightly so.

I don't think that questions changes much if you replace "Arab" with any other ethnic minority group in Israel. Black Ethiopians are an ethnic minority group in Israel, and they were given birth control against their will by the state of Israel.

>And as I already pointed out the article is pretty clear that there isn't actually convincing evidence, especially not against Israel (it seems to be about a possible rogue NGO or something?)

Israeli officials admitting they did indeed give them birth control isn't strong evidence against Israel? What about the source below?

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ethiopians-fool...

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#192

Post by dang »

luckylion wrote: post #186
dang wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I believe you know, single-purpose accounts are not allowed on HN and certainly not for political/national flamewar. I've banned this account. I understand the frustrations of trying to represent a minority/contrarian view in a large internet forum. But you can't do it this way. It breaks the site guidelines and it only feeds the cheap and lazy fantasies ("bots, spies, and astroturfers") that internet users indulg…

Commenting with verifiable information on life in Tibet pre Chinese annexation is a bannable offense?

Of course not.

> single-purpose accounts are not allowed on HN and certainly not for political/national flamewar.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#193

Post by hosh »

drocer88 wrote: post #143
hosh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even more complex when you look at the history. The Yuan dynasty were ruled by the Mongolians. The Mongolians were devout Buddhists and revered the Tibetan Buddhists. The search for reincarnated Tulkas by the Tibetan Buddhists would extend into the Mongolian regions. The imperial family gave a lot of autonomy to Tibet. The last Imperial dynasty, Qing, was ruled by Manchurians. The Manchurians were a foreign,…

"the imperial family were also devout Buddhists." Do you have a link for this?

This was the era I was referring to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Urn

I was wrong about the dates. It was late 1700s not late 1800s.

This paper is the one I read. It is a book review: https://academia.edu/resource/work/40611694

The book being reviewed is titled, Forging the Golden Urn: the Qing Empire and the Politics of Reincarnation in Tibet. Max Oidtmann

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#194

Post by random314 »

skinkestek wrote: post #169
colpabar wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok sure, replace arab with black then. This whole thread is about poor treatment of ethnic minorities, and the point of the comment I replied to is that we wouldn't tolerate forced sterilization of an ethnic minority group from a country like Israel. My response was that Israel has already done this, and we all seemed to tolerate it just fine.

My point is that you respond to one claim with something else while cutting the context and pretending it is the same. And as I already pointed out the article is pretty clear that there isn't actually convincing evidence, especially not against Israel (it seems to be about a possible rogue NGO or something?)

> there isn't actually convincing evidence, especially not against Israel

There seems to be a very obvious bias in your comments. This is a fact accepted by the Israeli government that I have already pointed out to you, but you keep ignoring it.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-01-28/israel-admits-injecti...

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#195

Post by yourapostasy »

tsjq wrote: post #18

Afghanistan next.

China has actually been relatively disinterested investing into Afghanistan [1], even when the US had been footing the security umbrella. Now that any investments might need to also contend with a civil war re-erupting from before the US entered, the numbers to pencil out are even further out of grasp.

Any investment into Afghanistan as a raw materials resource and/or 棲息地, Chinese Lebensraum, would have an ROI of quite a few decades. I don't see why they would economically rationally do that when the Belt and Road Initiative already will net them far more than "just" Afghanistan.

[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/The-myth-of-Chinese-investme...

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#196

Post by cucumb3rrelish »

notahacker wrote: post #190
uniqueuid wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why this is downvoted, because it succinctly summarizes what the Nazis did (having studied part of the phenomenon - Gleichschaltung - in depth).

It's a tendentious, provocative and clichéd claim followed by a couple of Wikipedia quotes. There are many valid criticisms of Chinese actions and objectives in Tibet, but describing it as "exactly the same" as the Nazi approach to lebensraum which was most notable for involving the systematic extermination of the residents is insulting to the intelligence of the average HN reader as well as being likely to attract t…

> Break their lineage, break their roots, break their connections, and break their origins. Completely shovel up the roots of “two-faced people,” dig them out, and vow to fight these two-faced people until the end.

Guess who said this? The Chinese official for religious affairs, on his weibo page. They aren't stupid. You don't need guns and executions for extermination of a minority, you can force resettle them across the country until nothing of their culture and little of their gens is left

Here is a few statistics:

> Since 2017, Chinese authorities have used various pretexts to damage or destroy two-thirds of Xinjiang’s mosques; about half of those have been demolished outright

> In 2017, according to official statistics, arrests in Xinjiang accounted for nearly 21 percent of all arrests in China, despite people in Xinjiang making up only 1.5 percent of the total population

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/19/break-their-lineage-br...

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#197

Post by seanmcdirmid »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #163
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China isn't that socialist, there is no strong social safety net waiting to bail you out if you move to Tibet. If they can't make a life for themselves in Tibet, they would simply be left to die, so why take the chance?

Yes in contrast to Xinjiang you can't economically develop Tibet. Even the CCP can't move mountains. Tibet is only good for tourism.

Xinjiang, especially north, has a lot of farm land, a lot of natural resources that are easily accessible, as well a lot of urbanization and industry already. There is a reason it has 25 million people while Tibet only has 2 million. It is already 42% Han, which makes the ethnic tensions with the Uighurs a lot more explosive.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#198

Post by rl3 »

tablespoon wrote: post #187
rl3 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more reasonable explanation is it's a combination of both. What I described is pretty much a standard, expected, and elementary capability of any intelligence apparatus in the modern world these days. It doesn't even veer into conspiracy-anything. There's documents that detail precisely how some of these units work, Western or otherwise. That said, if you're entirely correct, it's admittedly a very sad re…

I know they have the capability, I'm just skeptical use it on HN. I would think they'd focus on places with more reach (e.g. Twitter, Facebook, maybe Reddit) and places were they could have more control (e.g. fake blogs, fake think tanks, websites that peddle conspiracy theories).

I'm sure the larger platforms do have more focus, although that isn't mutually exclusive with the notion that resources are still allocated to HN.

The mandate of these units probably dictates they go wherever the discussion happens to be, especially if that discussion runs contrary to the objectives of the unit's host country.

Anecdotally, I've never experienced more rapid, clustered downvotes than in these threads. Certain keywords tend to be magnets for downvotes, regardless of how tame, well-written, or factual the comment is—to a degree that doesn't square with far more controversial opinions expressed in unrelated threads.

It's a rather chilling effect, or at the very least discouraging via way of annoyance.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#199

Post by PicassoCTs »

Imperialism with chinese characteristics. And they have "integrated" so many into this Han-Ethno-state by force. Some are barely visible by now.

The Cantonese, the Mongol-Northeners, the Koreans, the uighurs and by now the HongKongers. Always remember the backlash though, when the empires power fails and falters. This can reach genocidal levels of backlash against the ex-overlords.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/186810341303200...

Some of the neighboring countries have outright traditions of defending against the neighboring empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Just because this imperialism does not exist in the western left, its none the less just as real.

Re: CCP publication calls Tibet policy a template for other ethnic minority regions

#200

Post by emkoemko »

kat wrote: post #175
emkoemko wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea exactly thing is most people don't want that to happen today.. in Canada.. and the government also.. nor do we want it to happen in west Taiwan... i don't get these peoples arguments that because other people did evil crap west Taiwan should be allowed to do it as well? is that what your trying to say?

I didn't intend this to be an argument FOR forced medical procedures. I think forced medical procedures of any type are wrong! I wanted to add a data point that forced birth control happens in Canada. Forced birth control is not something limited to the CPP handbook.

but you agree it should not happen or are you saying because it happens in Canada, we should be fine with it in happening in West Taiwan? whats your opinion on forced organ harvesting? and slave labour ? i mean slavery did happen in the past and now most places ban it but since it did happen its fine for West Taiwan to do it? or Libya?

i just don't get the argument that because X happened in X place, people from X place can't be against it in another country? when they are against it happening anywhere, including their country.

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