EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#261

Post by ashwagary » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 9:46 AM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #259

ashwagary wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding 1 additional p2p hop to transactions is trivially easy with Bitcoin and readily automatable. With 1 additional hop, you facilitate somebody's purchase of bitcoin and they pay for the services you need in fiat (usually at a discount). Good luck regulating that.

Oh you sweet summer child, tax agencies and financial investigators know the ins and outs about financial triangulations since the dawn of tax fraud. You think they're not going to ask you about it once you're on the spotlight for an audit?

How would anyone know that you are in fact transacting BTC at all (especially if it's anonymized)? The risk seems almost nonexistent unless you are buying really expensive services on a regular basis.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#262

Post by ashwagary » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #260

ashwagary wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gift cards are anonymous bridges between the fiat and crypto world. Anyone can buy a $1000 Amazon gift card or 1000+ other gift cards instantly with no KYC. Currently, buying gift cards using the lightning network is faster than buying gift cards directly from merchants and there is no way Amazon or any other merchant can win the speed race using the traditional financial network.

What reality are you living in? Gift card purchases are _extremely_ scrutinized for fraud and everyone and their mother is skeptical of large purchases for gift cards precisely because they're an extremely common vehicle for fraud.

There is a massive BTC to gift card market and I've heard zero problems from the regular users of such services. What additional scrutiny have you heard of relating to $100-$1000 gift cards that are purchased legally and traded p2p?

From my understanding p2p exchange is the whole purpose of gift cards, so this activity is indistinguishable from other mainstream uses.

https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/usa/

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#263

Post by rini17 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 9:53 AM UTC

radu_floricica wrote: post #252

distances wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to hear more about such limits. Do they base it on total money withdrawn, or number of withdrawals? If you don't mind, what was the limit approximately? Is it only about cash withdrawals, can you use card and online payments as before?

About 60k eur anually. It's ironic, but a fair share of my withdrawals were simply because the pandemic made me want to have a cash reserve on hand, in case of emergencies. Plus a used car purchase and some renovations. Very white money, taxes already paid.

Aren't cash transactions over 5000 eur illegal in whole EU? The limit certainly stems from there (even if it isn't explicitly set by central bank). I'd definitely have lawyer on retainer if I personally moved 60k/year in cash around.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#264

Post by quickthrowman » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

mech422 wrote: post #204

quickthrowman wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTC is not like a bond at all. A bond is a collection of future cash flows (coupon payments) and a principle payment at the end (or for savings bonds/t-bills, you are buying one future payment for a discount). BTC has no intrinsic value or cash flows or earnings or assets or..

simple analogy was simple.. Would you prefer comparing it to gold ? Art ? collecting sneakers ? or Comic books ? how about buying land ? Edit: I should probably clarify..People buy/collect lots of things in the _HOPE_ they'll increase in value. BTC and crypto in general is not unique in that regard.

Gold, art, sneakers, comics— yes, those are comparable to BTC. Land is not, as land investments are usually based on future cash flows, which BTC doesnt have.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#265

Post by CryptoPunk » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:15 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #257

CryptoPunk wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto doesn't have to rely on large/detectable draws of electricity, as it can use Proof of Stake instead of Proof of Work. As for internet access, with encryption, it's very hard if not impossible to discriminate on how people use the internet, so the state will have to either choose to ban people from using encryption, or live with crypto.

> As for internet access, with encryption, it's very hard if not impossible to discriminate on how people use the internet, so the state will have to either choose to ban people from using encryption, or live with crypto. No. As long as "crypto" traffic is identifiable in any way , the state can ban it, encrypted or not. It's unnecessary for them to go through the trouble to decrypt it. For instance: 1. VPN traffic c…

>>As long as "crypto" traffic is identifiable in any way, the state can ban it, encrypted or not.

No, with encryption, it's possible to make crypto traffic completely indistinguishable from all other encrypted traffic.

>>1. VPN traffic can be fingerprinted, which is one of the methods the GFW uses to block them.

The state would indeed need to block both VPNs and TOR to make a dent in crypto traffic. The former would have huge negative economic repercussions. The latter, while not directly impactful on any significant economic sectors, would face major challenges from civil liberties advocates.

>>A state can setup nodes in a cypto network and then go after anyone in their jurisdiction who connects to them.

Crypto nodes that transmit their data through VPNs or TOR cannot be detected like this. In any case, I think it's highly unlikely that the people in any country with a strong democratic tradition would put up with their government doing what you describe. The government is not the master of society. It is the representative of the collective will, and the collective will be very unlikely to support such nakedly authoritarian measures.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#266

Post by ranguna » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:09 AM UTC

_Algernon_ wrote: post #221

ranguna wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean "do not track"? Good luck with that, even the EU was smart enough to know that that's not an option.

"Do not track" isn't even close to what I'm talking about. The only difference would be that the cookie banner is presented by the browser in a standardised way, similar to e.g. the webcam permissions dialogue. It would have the same (non-existent) legal enforcability as now but the browser could enforce it by blocking cookies and sites would be more usable, with fewer dark patterns.

Ah so a new Web API ?

That could work, yes.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#267

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