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EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

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Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#221

Post by _Algernon_ »

ranguna wrote: post #220
_Algernon_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were competent, they would have worked with web browser developers, and made it browser side like other permission dialogs. Imagine what could have been: a standardised prompt that is always the same, persists when clearing cookies, etc. Instead we have full screen modal popups that render 5 seconds after page load and move around while loading.

You mean "do not track"? Good luck with that, even the EU was smart enough to know that that's not an option.

"Do not track" isn't even close to what I'm talking about. The only difference would be that the cookie banner is presented by the browser in a standardised way, similar to e.g. the webcam permissions dialogue. It would have the same (non-existent) legal enforcability as now but the browser could enforce it by blocking cookies and sites would be more usable, with fewer dark patterns.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#222

Post by dmantis »

nenadg wrote: post #74
burnished wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, where I live weed was decriminalized relatively recently. I could still get weed before, but I couldn't rock up some where and get a CBD soda, or a vape cartridge, or nice edibles, or a variety of products. In the same way you say "how will they ban anonymous wallets" you might say "how do you criminalize a plant", and thats by making possession illegal and following up on that by targeting people/places they e…

Looks like a ton of bureaucracy with little or no output. I agree, might be the same thing as a war against the drugs lmfao.

They love bureaucracy, they pay themselves for it.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#223

Post by dmantis »

elric wrote: post #123
oceanplexian wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments can either get onboard, and come up with a reasonable, practical regulatory environment, or alternatively they will be left behind and Crypto will evolve to circumvent their wishes. It is a shame but the USA may end up leapfrogging the EU in the same way they have done with other innovations, like Social Media, Self Driving Cars, and other cutting edge tech. It turns out regulating entire sectors of the e…

And then what? Crypto will magically take over all government functions? Or will people be happy in a governmentless-society? Where hospitals and roads don't get built but at least there's "freedom"?

Maybe we should develop less taxes, try to charge everyone with fixed amount for gov services or move some expensive services to private ownership?

Private hospitals based on private insurances will surely build themselves, I promise you that, that's a too highly profitable sector of economy not to invest if there is no competition from the government.

There are like zero real reasons why person with 100k EUR income should pay more than 10k EUR income person living in the same city and consuming the same amount of public services. Current system is completely unjust and based on money redistribution (that's called robbery if that's is done by a mob without the gov id card).

Free capital controls provided by crypto (i.e. ability to flawlessly move billions through the border without anyone's allowance) introduces unprecedented competition between govs for educated and rich citizens, which may lead to lower taxes, less regulations, more freedoms and less bureaucracy. That a good goal and incentive, don't you think?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#224

Post by dmantis »

randomopining wrote: post #187
nathias wrote: post #29

This is good for Bitcoin. (really, we need more traffic to go to fully decentralized exchanges)

Can the DEX's work even if they are outlawed in the future?

Like torrents or dark markets. Technically not a problem, but will cause more effort and risks for creators (goodbye VC backed "Decentralized" swaps) and higher costs for clients who will pay for covering those risks.

I assure you, though, that some sneaky guy from Africa, Russia, Ukraine or China would always find his way to help people changing their money.

Btw, in theory there is a way to create completely decentralized versions (hosting frontend on IPFS/torrents/other distributed storage) and the whole backend made on smart-contract, but it would be slower and harder to use than current systems with partially centralized backends and CDN js/static distribution.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#225

Post by distances »

radu_floricica wrote: post #212
acdha wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN tends to have a lot of people who are good at technical analysis and allergic to hyperbolic marketing. By now there's been a decade of Bitcoin proponents endlessly repeating claims which are either untrue or highly aspirational while it continues to very expensively not deliver results. This brings me to the second part: anyone who does care about privacy is _especially_ not going to recommend use of Bitcoin since…

I'm not sure how you can call it worse than the status quo. Last week my bank informed me that I passed my ATM limit for the year and it's going to give me a small daily allowance for the rest of the year. And then lied me on the phone that it's a requirement from the central bank. This is neither a joke nor a metaphor - this literally happened to me this month (ING in Romania -they're widely considered the best bank…

I'd like to hear more about such limits. Do they base it on total money withdrawn, or number of withdrawals? If you don't mind, what was the limit approximately? Is it only about cash withdrawals, can you use card and online payments as before?

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#226

Post by boublepop »

avnigo wrote: post #148

I've experienced HN to be highly anti-Bitcoin for some reason -- got instantly downvoted for commenting neutrally on it [0]. However, I sort of expected more people on here would sympathize with the Cypherpunk Manifesto [1] and band together against pressures to minimize our privacy. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28114156 [1]: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

> minimize our privacy.

That’s not a neutral stance. The idea that anything that happens on a computer should be completely free of law, trace or any kind of governmental control is not just a stance of “we want privacy” and in fact most of the pushes are just establishing the exact same level of accountability that you have always had in pre-digital financial systems.

The government has always asked you to truthfully under penalty of law report your income and financial activities. The fact that it was difficult for them to tell if you lied is not a question about rights that’s a question of accountability.

The government has always had financial regulations for banks, financial institutions and securities, the fact that it has been easy for people to ignore those rules is not a question of rights, it’s a question about accountability.

You claim neutrality but the very framing of the discussion you take is an extremist point of view. It’s essentially like saying “The civil war was about states rights and I’m neutral about if they where right”

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#227

Post by nly »

ilaksh wrote: post #192
NicoJuicy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The governement should know who you are and the bank you are associated too, if that's required to do business with them. Eg. VISA should be able to return my money to my bank account if someone has a chance to abuse the system and target me. I don't want companies to share my information to third parties, this includes the banks about my purchases. And eg. Facebook shouldn't be able to target me because a site added…

Visa is obsolete. That's the first point most people miss in these cryptocurrency discussions. Credit cards require you to disclose your secret credentials that allow withdrawals from your account. Cryptocurrency payments do not because they apply math and computer science to the problem. The banking systems are also mostly obsolete because they are usually on an outdated paradigm without a blockchain. Blockchains ar…

You can use a credit card anywhere even when your phone is in your car/at home or has a dead battery.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#228

Post by jobigoud »

radu_floricica wrote: post #212
acdha wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN tends to have a lot of people who are good at technical analysis and allergic to hyperbolic marketing. By now there's been a decade of Bitcoin proponents endlessly repeating claims which are either untrue or highly aspirational while it continues to very expensively not deliver results. This brings me to the second part: anyone who does care about privacy is _especially_ not going to recommend use of Bitcoin since…

I'm not sure how you can call it worse than the status quo. Last week my bank informed me that I passed my ATM limit for the year and it's going to give me a small daily allowance for the rest of the year. And then lied me on the phone that it's a requirement from the central bank. This is neither a joke nor a metaphor - this literally happened to me this month (ING in Romania -they're widely considered the best bank…

The worse than status quo comment of the grandparent refers to privacy, in the current system your bank (and whomever they sell the data to) knows everything, in a public and transparent ledger possibly everyone knows about what you use your coins for. It's not the case of Bitcoin right now but this move is concerning in this regard.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#229

Post by lottin »

mech422 wrote: post #215
lottin wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different in at least two ways: physical objects provide utility in some way (you can read the book, wear the sneakers...) which means the demand isn't entirely speculative, and they also have a scrap value.

except people routinely pay more then their 'utility' value..so its just as easy to lose money. Not sure what the 'utility' of funco pops are, or the scrap value (same with stamps IIRC - many of them aren't even valid for postage). Stocks typically have no 'scrap' value as well - if a company goes out of biz, the stock is worthless, and these days you generally don't even have the paper certificates to sell for scrap…

If they routinely pay more than their utility value, it's a good indication that the asset is in a bubble, and therefore not a good investment in the long term. Most assets are not in a bubble. In fact, they can't all be in a bubble. If some assets are overpriced, then other assets must be underpriced.

Stocks don't have scrap value because they're a financial derivative, whereas we were talking specifically about physical assets. A stock is a claim on a company's equity, and the company equity is defined as assets minus liabilities. Obviously if assets Bitcoin is not a derivative, because it has no underlying. It's not a commodity either, because it doesn't exist. It's an imaginary asset, like fiat money. But unlike fiat, Bitcoin doesn't work as money, so it really has no use-case other than be used as a speculative asset. It's a bubble asset.

Re: EU to make Bitcoin traceable, ban anonymous crypto wallets

#230

Post by pcthrowaway »

mech422 wrote: post #211
mech422 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the transactions were very slow and fees were massive compared to everything else I gotta admit, this is my biggest issue with crypto. So far, it's just too slow/expensive to be attractive to me as a day to day tool.

>>*Bitcoin. Transactions on Fantom for example take couple seconds and cost less than a USD cent. Similarly Nano, AVAX, Cardano and many others. Can't reply to your comment for some reason.. I been in Cardano/ADA for years now, and it generally takes about an hour to get the required confirms for moving between exchanges. Not familiar with Nano, and AVAX...

Cardano transactions shouldn't take more than a few minutes at most. If you're waiting about an hour, it's because the exchange has a wait period.
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