IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations • Hacker News Board

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#111

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

archildress wrote: post #48

Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. In financial analysis of a company, the number one item you tend to look at is "free cash flow" - the "cash available for the company to repay creditors or pay dividends and interest to investors." [1] Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes,…

> Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness?

We...do. Any significant credit application will look at your employment history, income, and credit score, not just the latter.

> Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes, I'm credit-worthy because my income makes it possible to service my debt?

Credit reporting companies do gather and provide pay data. As fir other data, they don't gather it directly from the people about whom they keep files.

> The entire idea of a credit score based on having had credit and paying past loans off is asinine

No, its not. While past performance isn't a guarantee of future results, it is useful as a guide. And it isn't the only factor considered in most loans.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#112

Post by randomdata » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #106

btbuildem wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I understand this system is that you have to buy your credit score. Borrow a little, pay interest, so that you can borrow a larger sum later.

You never need to pay interest. If you pay your statement balance by the due date you'll never pay interest but your statement will reflect a balance.

Credit cards make money on the transaction side, so they don't need you to pay interest to make money. Simply borrowing against your credit card (i.e. performing transactions) is sufficient to keep them happy, and they 'reward' you with a higher score as a result.

At the end of the day, a credit score indicates how profitable you will be as a customer for a lender. Showing profitability for a lender in a past indicates that you will likely be profitable in the future as well. Thus, in effect, you do have to buy your score, although the method of purchase may not always be straightforward.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#113

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #100

archildress wrote: post #48

Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. In financial analysis of a company, the number one item you tend to look at is "free cash flow" - the "cash available for the company to repay creditors or pay dividends and interest to investors." [1] Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes,…

Income is required for any loan ranging from a personal loan, to a car note to a mortgage. Even renting an apartment requires proof of income! The only loan that doesn’t require proof are student loans, and those are essentially impossible to default on.

> The only loan that doesn’t require proof are student loans, and those are essentially impossible to default on.

They are trivial to default on. They are very hard to discharge.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#114

Post by Ekaros » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

cmattoon wrote: post #17

A better conversation is whether IMF/credit scores deserve to exist in the first place. Didn't these geniuses JUST add field-specific search to SWIFT, so orders for "cubanos" don't get held up because of Cuba sanctions? Maybe these clueless old men should stick to what they know - mountains of physical paperwork and pointless policies and procedures, and stay away from anything that uses electricity or internet. Bitc…

Living in country where we don't have credit score it always seemed massive black box with very strange incentives... Here the loaning is based on income, other loans and possibly registry of past failed payments.

I'm not really sure if more than last one is needed, maybe some overall registry of how much money single person has lend and what part is unguaranteed of it...

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#115

Post by zionic » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

cube00 wrote: post #60

From the IMF blog post[1]: > Even a well-paid expatriate moving to the United States can be caught in the conundrum of not getting a credit card for lack of credit record, and not having a credit record for lack of credit cards. > Fintech resolves the dilemma by tapping various nonfinancial data: the type of browser and hardware used to access the internet, the history of online searches and purchases. I enjoy the fr…

That is a horrifying idea... eliminate fixed rate interest mortgages and the banks can target and de-home people at will.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#116

Post by da_big_ghey » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

xphilter wrote: post #99

nanis wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 + 2 indeed is four[1] in conversations with colleagues, neighbors, teachers, or even family because you may lose your income or worse if you did not at least remain silent in the face of assertions to the contrary? For those not familiar, here is the beginning…

Ok, I’ll indulge you. What is the 2+2=4 for you that you are prevented from saying?

Not nanis but i have been in places where i couldnt say my opposing as persons talked about gun control. Biggest example in past year is corona though, anybody who disagree with lockdown etc. is anti-mask trump loving redneck in some place, one of which I worked.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#117

Post by jart » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #80

FractalHQ wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is already for “nerds” only. Coincidentally, I brought up Ublock Origin last night at a gathering, and multiple people claimed they had never heard of a browser extension.

That's nice, but have you ever heard someone refer to IE as "just the normal internet"? Anyways, Whatever the law says, us nerds should be in charge anyway, right?! Or at least we should have some inherent privilege. These guys at the IMF have great ideas.

It was only within the past few decades that being a nerd stopped having social stigma and we became elevated to the social status of normal people. But we don't have any real power since lawyers still have a monopoly on that. They fill all the seats in congress, even though they're .5% of the population. They have the power to read our emails. But if you think about it, legal code is really just a primitive form of code that lacks the precision modern programming languages can provide. Modern code has so much more benefit to offer the public, like things happening in microseconds whereas previously you'd have to wait weeks and pay thousands of dollars in fees. So the transition to the newer better technology where legal code is executable and written by nerds is inevitable, but people with power are afraid of losing their power, so it'll take time for society to evolve. Each time the lawyer ruling class does something bad, like build a website that doesn't work, they'll need to give us a little more power in order to save them. Then eventually, we'll win.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#118

Post by mikeyouse » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

xphilter wrote: post #99

nanis wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 + 2 indeed is four[1] in conversations with colleagues, neighbors, teachers, or even family because you may lose your income or worse if you did not at least remain silent in the face of assertions to the contrary? For those not familiar, here is the beginning…

Ok, I’ll indulge you. What is the 2+2=4 for you that you are prevented from saying?

Lol - it turns out it's some antivax conspiracy nonsense that was flagged to death yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28275671

Orwell indeed.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#119

Post by hughrr » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #13

Somehow I have a feeling that each passing day, things are getting tighter and tighter and private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian. That feeling like slowly being boiled into 1984.

I believe the low quality low hanging fruits of my life are being slowly squeezed out by stupid corporate and government policies.

But it’s a glass half full for those aware and able to see it for what it is.

The end game is me sitting under a tree somewhere with a picnic in the middle of nowhere with someone I have a genuine connection with and no technology at hand.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#120

Post by yorwba » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #85

yorwba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System From your link: "By 2020,[needs update] it was intended to standardize the assessment of citizens' and businesses' economic and social reputation, or 'Social Credit'." It's 2021 now and the "Social" part of "Social Credit" is still science-fiction, let alone somebody's web history affecting their ability to obtai…

In 2018 there were announcements on Chinese trains that smoking in the bathrooms would affect your social credit score. In Mandarin and in English. I don't know how it is implemented, but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

If you get caught smoking on a train, they can put you on a list of people banned from buying tickets. Very simple; no credit scoring required.

Presumably being on such a blacklist will actually influence individual credit scores once they get rolled out nationwide, but unless I somehow missed the announcement, that hasn't happened yet.