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IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

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Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#91

Post by persedes »

refenestrator wrote: post #29
rootsudo wrote: post #3

Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System Go to HackerNews, post a dissenting topic, enjoy no travel or credit! Work in a high compliance job where you have to submit financials yearly, no more!

And you can lose your job for posting a controversial opinion in the US, completely privatized. It's a way more stable system. Allow a very narrow band of opinions in practice while claiming that everyone's free to think whatever they want in theory.

I've heard that sentiment, but does that actually happen? At least without the company being sued for violating someones freedom of speech.

The last very public case I'm aware of was Damore at google, which they must've settled outside of court.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#92

Post by boredumb »

refenestrator wrote: post #29
rootsudo wrote: post #3

Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System Go to HackerNews, post a dissenting topic, enjoy no travel or credit! Work in a high compliance job where you have to submit financials yearly, no more!

And you can lose your job for posting a controversial opinion in the US, completely privatized. It's a way more stable system. Allow a very narrow band of opinions in practice while claiming that everyone's free to think whatever they want in theory.

sure but you have the ability to post under a moniker that isn't tied to my SSN that private places are able to query against.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#93

Post by evergrande »

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #13

Somehow I have a feeling that each passing day, things are getting tighter and tighter and private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian. That feeling like slowly being boiled into 1984.

Australia may already be there. Seriously, watch this 2 minute news report. They are handcuffing, fining and publicly shaming teenagers for "being outside without a reasonable excuse".

https://twitter.com/CharlieEmmaUK/status/1429471216260235266

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#94

Post by ballenf »

runako wrote: post #74
travoc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell us who is giving out large loans without verifying income?

All major US credit card issuers. Many auto lenders. Most of consumer credit outside of mortgages operates without any real income verification. Here, "large" runs at least up to $50k-$100k per lender without any meaningful income verification.

If you work for a large company or a small company using most payroll processing services, your pay is probably easily retrievable by any creditor.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/11/how-to-opt-out-of-equifa...

Even though the article is old, I saw my last few years' pay history in the links provided there.

Opting out feels like a devil's bargain: credit will presumably cost you more or be harder to get as a result. But there's no fine-grained way to choose who gets the info.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#95

Post by benrbray »

nanis wrote: post #54
NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #13

Somehow I have a feeling that each passing day, things are getting tighter and tighter and private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian. That feeling like slowly being boiled into 1984.

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 + 2 indeed is four[1] in conversations with colleagues, neighbors, teachers, or even family because you may lose your income or worse if you did not at least remain silent in the face of assertions to the contrary? For those not familiar, here is the beginning…

You don't indicate a political slant, but this is an alt-right take on American politics if I've ever seen one. I would counter with:

For a couple hundred years, Americans insisted 2+2=5. It was even enshrined in law for the first hundred or so years. We eventually agreed on a compromise, 2+2=4.5, but some of our lives depend on the answer to this math problem, so we're not going to stop fighting for 2+2=4. Sure enough, if you work as an engineer, you're going to be fired if your answer isn't within tolerance.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#96

Post by usaar333 »

bserge wrote: post #39
randomdata wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't it? The credit score is a tool to provide a measure of how profitable you can be to lenders. If you're paying off loans, you are a less desirable customer than those who carry loans. The lower score reflects that.

This is the same system used for Internet contracts, buying work tools, renting apartments and buying houses. If you can afford those things more safely, you should be considered less desirable? Instead, it's the people who are likely to be in debt until death that are better? But I guess, yeah, fuck society, get rich while you can.

FICO credit scores aren't intended for tenant assessment - it's just a lazy option some landlords do. The credit companies have dedicated products for such a use case (https://www.mysmartmove.com/).

Realistically, paying off a loan rarely hurts credit scores. And realistically, someone with years of paying off credit cards on time is going to have a high credit score (at least high enough for things you describe), outstanding debts or not.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#97

Post by Mountain_Skies »

upearly3 wrote: post #51
bArray wrote: post #19

This is just yet another push by financial companies to impose on your freedom of speech. Why on earth do people keep pushing for private companies to become political activists? They have already come for individual bank accounts, in the UK for example an activist named 'Tommy Robinson' [1] is not allowed to open a bank account due to his politics [*]. "What business of mine is it So long they don’t take the yam Fro…

It's worth considering whether the 'far-right', which probably just means stuff-that-everyone-thought-20-years-ago, would go the same route if they had the upper hand in the West currently. Maybe it's all more just a matter of opportunity than it is belief system.

And someday they probably will have that chance. Each time one ideological group gains an edge in power, for some dumb reason they become convinced that they'll hold that edge forever. You can see this constantly here on HN with people gleefully celebrating the smiting of their ideological opponents by private corporations and their government string pullers. Each time I mention that this could be turned around on them someday, they always claim it's different this time because "we're on the right side of history" which of course is what every ideologue believes.

What should scare them, and everyone else, is the distinct possibility that things won't simply swing back into a previous state but rather some new state will arise and use this power against everyone else. When the woke crowd loses power, and they will, it might not be "the alt-right" that gets power but something along a completely different axis that no one is even imagining today. And they'll have all of these tools of control and oppression ready made for their abuse.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#98

Post by throwawaygh »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #81
throwawaygh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To start throwing nonsensical parameters like browsing history into the equation is second derivative asinine. And trivially exploitable... > Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. The bigger problem is that the organizations designing credit scores (and alternative metrics) are incompetent.

Organizations are allowed to be incompetent. The real problem is they have buy in from other industries with major decision making abilities and the government has provided us no protections from them. If Equifax went out of business today, you'd have 5 new equally shitty credit companies trying to get their market share.

> Organizations are allowed to be incompetent.

Only up to a point, though. Restaurants can be shut down when they have too many health violations. Private medical practices can be sued into the ground. There are lots of types of incompetence in finance that can get you shut down / sued out of existence.

> The real problem is they have buy in from other industries with major decision making abilities and the government has provided us no protections from them.

Which is why I'm being vocal, where possible, about how incompetent these organizations have become.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#99

Post by xphilter »

nanis wrote: post #54
NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #13

Somehow I have a feeling that each passing day, things are getting tighter and tighter and private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian. That feeling like slowly being boiled into 1984.

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 + 2 indeed is four[1] in conversations with colleagues, neighbors, teachers, or even family because you may lose your income or worse if you did not at least remain silent in the face of assertions to the contrary? For those not familiar, here is the beginning…

Ok, I’ll indulge you. What is the 2+2=4 for you that you are prevented from saying?

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#100

Post by jdavis703 »

archildress wrote: post #48

Credit scores are so fundamentally broken anyway. In financial analysis of a company, the number one item you tend to look at is "free cash flow" - the "cash available for the company to repay creditors or pay dividends and interest to investors." [1] Why then do we not take income into account in credit worthiness? Why do I not periodically upload my W2 or tax return to the credit bureaus in order to show that yes,…

Income is required for any loan ranging from a personal loan, to a car note to a mortgage. Even renting an apartment requires proof of income! The only loan that doesn’t require proof are student loans, and those are essentially impossible to default on.
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