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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#791

Post by [deleted] »

tialaramex wrote: post #565
autokad wrote: post #521

There is lots of competition for the top of the stupidity list. NYC locking down all summer and then 'opening up' in September seemed top of the list to me. It's not that I thought they should have stayed locked down the entire time, its that they should have opened in the summer so they could lock down in the winter if they really needed it. But seriously though, locking down in the summer to only open up in flu sea…

> Or maybe the whole 'if we just lock down for two weeks, this will be over' tops the list of stupidity New Zealand had 26 deaths in over a year of the pandemic. Not 26 per 100k population. Not 26 per day. Twenty six people full stop. Because in fact "We go hard and we go early" works. Right now they are locked down (since last week) because they had one case in their community, but of course it isn't ever one case a…

[deleted]

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#792

Post by throwawaymsft »

peteretep wrote: post #775
collaborative wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing that still bothers me is that we don't yet know how quickly this coronavirus evolves, and from what we know it very likely escaped from a gain-of-function laboratory that specializes in quickly mutating viruses. I didn't see Delta coming. I want to believe that this is the worst of it. But this coronavirus has so far kept us on our toes so it may well have a few more surprises in store

> it very likely escaped Do you have a source for “very likely”? I’m at “plausibly escaped from” so far and would be interested in evidence that changes that in either direction.

Why isn’t the burden of proof on the lone BSL4 lab in the country doing research on that very class of virus to prove its innocence?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#793

Post by paulddraper »

quickthrowman wrote: post #725
dpweb wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the question of should a government force its citizens to have a medical procedure. Or de-facto forcing by requiring proof for common daily activities. This issue was then weaponized for political purposes, and people got militant about it. But governments have consistently lied/been wrong about this virus, so there is no trust either in their messaging about this crisis.

> Also, the question of should a government force its citizens to have a medical procedure. There’s a Supreme Court decision[0] about whether states can mandate a vaccine (they can). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

> can

> should

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#794

Post by postalrat »

greedo wrote: post #359
User23 wrote: post #132

What baffles me is the total failure to highlight one of the best ways to mitigate the risk of severe covid complications: don’t be obese[1]. It’s also a good life choice for those who also prefer not to die of non-covid conditions. Edit: And it increases your risk for long covid[2]. [1] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/latest-evidence-on... [2] https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210608/obesity-increases-r...

Obesity is something that can take quite a while to address. What baffles me is the total failure of some people to see one of the best ways to mitigate the risk of severe covid complications; TAKE THE VACCINE

A person could lose a lot of weight in the 2 years of covid-19.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#795

Post by rayiner »

eli wrote: post #443
rayiner wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

Yes, scientific uncertainty is a thing. It would be great if we instantly had tons of studies and replications showing exactly how effective different measures are, but that is just not how it works. I can cite many models that show masking works, if you're curious. This same line of argument was used to question climate change for decades and to support the argument that we should not take any aggressive measures to…

It’s not just uncertainty as to whether masks work on kids, but uncertainty as to the impact of masking on the development of younger children.

As to your climate change example—here, the US is again the odd one out. Other developed countries are not masking toddlers, like the CDC recommends.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#796

Post by rayiner »

edejong wrote: post #750
rayiner wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

The author of the article doesn't understand science: "Distancing, hybrid models, classroom barriers, HEPA filters, and, most notably, requiring student masking were each found to not have a statistically significant benefit. In other words, these measures could not be said to be effective." No! If you cannot find a statistically significant benefit, perhaps your experiment design is flawed. Perhaps your sample size…

> No! If you cannot find a statistically significant benefit, perhaps your experiment design is flawed. Perhaps your sample size is too small. Perhaps you have too many confounders. But you cannot conclude the measures are not effective!

You’re misreading the article. He’s not saying they’re not effective. He’s saying that a high-powered study couldn’t prove them effective, which is the same thing you’re saying.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#798

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

nojs wrote: post #784
tdfx wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We go hard and we go early" works. "We go hard and we go early" works *in a small, remote island nation that is willing to hermetically seal itself off from the rest of the world.

It’s also worked pretty well in China.

...according to China, masters of disinformation

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#799

Post by nradov »

nojs wrote: post #787
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have pointed out they're able to totally control their border and quarantine every single arrival. But more importantly, how will it end for them? Australia and New Zealand are among the worst corona zealot nations. New Zealand just shut down everything over a single case and the PM told people to not even talk to each other anymore. How will they get out of this? If they looked at the facts they'd understa…

Your comment is slightly out of date. The stated position of both the Australian PM and NSW state premier is that elimination is impossible, and vaccination/reopening is the goal. https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-update-we-cant...

If that's correct then why have they been so slow to distribute vaccines?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#800

Post by Aeolun »

NationalPark wrote: post #362
Aeolun wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they’re spending the whole day in a classroom together the effect of masks is going to be minimal.

That's simply not what the research has found. Edit: Allow me to clarify - the research everyone is citing that says masking is effective in teachers and ineffective in students (the 37% number) predates both the delta variant and widespread infection in Southern states. Further, masking is understood etiologically as a prevention method and has been used successfully in other outbreaks and in other countries. Clinic…

Minimal doesn’t help

Is it worth the cost? That’s a different question.

I’m not really opposed to masks in a classroom as a mitigation method, but if people believe it will significantly alter the trajectory of the infections I have a bridge to sell them.

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