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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#431

Post by deelowe »

erhk wrote: post #290
rootusrootus wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Once my kids can get jabbed, I will cease giving covid much thought. I don't want to get a breakthrough case, even if it's not dangerous, because I loathe being ill, but getting sick periodically is an unfortunate fact of life.

Depending on the age of your children you can mostly cease giving it thought already. https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19... Barring unusual preconditions

Data for Delta is still coming in, right? I thought there are concerns about it causing more complications in children than previous variants.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#432

Post by heywherelogingo »

outside1234 wrote: post #409
heywherelogingo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To think the unvaccinated should be scared of it reveals a perspective born of mania. I'm unvaccinated, had covid last week, it's preferable to a common cold. There is no way I will bother with the so-called vaccine, which is more of a mere remedy, when covid is so insignificant to people who are healthy. If you are so unhealthy that you need the vaccine (remedy) then you have bigger concerns.

So you are selfish, because you could have passed it on to a number of people in the meantime for whom it will not be a common cold.

Right, because 0.1% of the population expecting 99.9% of the population to lockdown and inject things too isn't selfish?

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#433

Post by rhino369 »

AdamN wrote: post #410
rayiner wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

This makes it sound like there was some groundbreaking CDC study that got hidden for political reasons. It was a study of a single month in Georgia before Delta. Aside from the narrowness of the inputs I highly doubt school policy and ground truth were aligned. That study is not enough to be driving policy.

The evidence for cotton and surgical mask--as used in actual practice--being effective at reducing the spread is pretty weak in general.

Most I've seen cited by mask proponents either don't use control groups (and thus can't really distinguish btwn other factors that correlate with mask wearing) or are laboratory tests just testing what % of particles are blocked by masks--which ignores almost every relevant question about mask mandates and relies on suspect theoretical models about how covid actually transmits between people.

I'm mystified why people on both sides are so up in arms about masks, but nobody gives one shit about uncontroversal and more effective mitigation techniques like air filtration and circulation.

An infected kid in classroom without proper air circulation could fill the classroom with enough virus to cause a super spreader event--mask or no-cotton/surgical mask.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#434

Post by spookthesunset »

AdamN wrote: post #410
rayiner wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

This makes it sound like there was some groundbreaking CDC study that got hidden for political reasons. It was a study of a single month in Georgia before Delta. Aside from the narrowness of the inputs I highly doubt school policy and ground truth were aligned. That study is not enough to be driving policy.

The default policy should be a normal non-masked school year. People pushing masks need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence that masks work and are worth all the negative effects they might have on kids. In addition they need a clearly defined exit strategy. They should also articulate what problem masks on kids are trying to solve.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#435

Post by rossdavidh »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #167
rossdavidh wrote: post #36

Good article, but doesn't mention the other reason that covid-19 is never going completely away: animal reservoirs. We know that dogs, cats, hamsters, guinea pigs, mink, white-tailed deer, a gorilla, and a tiger have been found to have been infected with covid-19. It is implausible that it will ever cease to have an animal reservoir, especially given the finding in Canada of 30% of white-tailed deer having it. Of dis…

How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? The transmission chain must be very long. I'd appreciate any links or resources to read more. Perhaps we can learn to be more mindful of our interactions with other animals, wear masks in public spaces or public transport, and hopefully WFH becomes a permanent option. It seems that I stepped on many nerves, please, feel f…

As to "how does covid transmit to wild animals...", I think it is an excellent question, but I don't think we have a definitive answer. Clearly there is something about the transmission we don't understand (which suggests why current measures to halt the spread such as lockdowns, masks, etc. don't seem to work well).

As for the "stepped on many nerves", I think your comment was interpreted as meaning "we should stay at home and wear masks forever", whereas the general patience for such measures is wearing thin. My guess is that part of the reason for a rising rate of violent crime in the U.S. in the last twelve months is simply more people with rising frustration, such that they are more willing to resort to violence.

By the way it appears that white-tailed deer in the US have now also been found to have antibodies likely indicating covid-19 exposure: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.29.454326v1....

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#436

Post by spookthesunset »

throwaway4good wrote: post #383
martin_bech wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The masks part is easy.. it has no effect.. We have been on and off masks here in Denmark, and it seems to have no effect on spread. Also mostly you get covid when not wearing one.. from a family member or a friend..

It has a quite an effect. If you notice at the moment the corona numbers are high in Netherlands and Denmark while low in Germany. Because Germany has kept more restrictions in place, in particular mask wearing in shops and transport.

Correlation is not causation. Just because “cases went down” doesn’t mean masks (or lockdowns) were responsible for the drop.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#437

Post by gilbetron »

rayiner wrote: post #372
adrr wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren’t scared up. Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries. Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12. With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others. Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit. Get 3 at the same time and it’s…

> It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools. It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski... > At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control an…

So the CDC are not educated nor intelligent, I guess?

"Due to the circulating and highly contagious Delta variant, CDC recommends universal indoor masking by all students (age 2 and older), staff, teachers, and visitors to K-12 schools, regardless of vaccination status."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-...

Also, the very study NYMag talks about still recommends: "Because universal and correct use of masks can reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission (6) and is a relatively low-cost and easily implemented strategy, findings in this report suggest universal and correct mask use is an important COVID-19 prevention strategy in schools as part of a multicomponent approach."

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#438

Post by handrous »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #405
Aeolun wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they’re spending the whole day in a classroom together the effect of masks is going to be minimal.

Masks is too broad of a term as being used. There are OSHA environments where proper N95-type masks can protect you from aerosol risks for 8 hours a day. The likelihood that a cloth mask can do that in a classroom however… Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom.

> Best mitigator would be good HEPA room air purifiers, ideally multiple per classroom.

They can be too loud to run while class is in session, especially if they move enough air to be worth a damn. Double-especially if you're also masked (so speaking is already a bit muffled).

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#439

Post by cfn »

hajile wrote: post #369
cfn wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it easier and safer to vaccinate the teachers? There are less of them and they are of the age where the current vaccines are considered safe.

In NYC, teacher's unions refused to go back to work until a vaccine was available. Despite that, the vaccination rates were only 40-60% before the mandate that public sector workers be vaccinated.

I suppose that the teachers that chose not to be vaccinated would not want to impose that on their pupils.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#440

Post by Cd00d »

h3cate wrote: post #251
greyivy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the immunocompromised or those who are legitimately unable to get vaccinated? Not a very nuanced take.

What would you have us do instead? The elderly are severely at risk from the flu but we don't have winter lockdowns for them?

I'm not totally sure what point you're making, but we do strongly recommend the flu vaccine for people interacting with the elderly.
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