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The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#191

Post by tharne »

jtbayly wrote: post #184
tharne wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M). This fact really bothers me. I feel like once adults got vaccinated we all spiked the football and said "F--k the kids, I got mine".

The kids aren't in danger.

The kids weren't in danger, that appears to be changing very quickly with the new variant. Let's not be like George W. Bush standing on the aircraft carrier saying "mission accomplished", when we're still in the middle of this thing.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#192

Post by dahfizz »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #167
rossdavidh wrote: post #36

Good article, but doesn't mention the other reason that covid-19 is never going completely away: animal reservoirs. We know that dogs, cats, hamsters, guinea pigs, mink, white-tailed deer, a gorilla, and a tiger have been found to have been infected with covid-19. It is implausible that it will ever cease to have an animal reservoir, especially given the finding in Canada of 30% of white-tailed deer having it. Of dis…

How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? The transmission chain must be very long. I'd appreciate any links or resources to read more. Perhaps we can learn to be more mindful of our interactions with other animals, wear masks in public spaces or public transport, and hopefully WFH becomes a permanent option. It seems that I stepped on many nerves, please, feel f…

> How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ?

I've been within a few feet of wild deer plenty of times in my life. Humans have a lot more interaction with wild animals than you would think once you move outside of urban areas.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#193

Post by mr_overalls »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #167
rossdavidh wrote: post #36

Good article, but doesn't mention the other reason that covid-19 is never going completely away: animal reservoirs. We know that dogs, cats, hamsters, guinea pigs, mink, white-tailed deer, a gorilla, and a tiger have been found to have been infected with covid-19. It is implausible that it will ever cease to have an animal reservoir, especially given the finding in Canada of 30% of white-tailed deer having it. Of dis…

How does covid transmit to wild animals like deer that have almost no interactions with humans ? The transmission chain must be very long. I'd appreciate any links or resources to read more. Perhaps we can learn to be more mindful of our interactions with other animals, wear masks in public spaces or public transport, and hopefully WFH becomes a permanent option. It seems that I stepped on many nerves, please, feel f…

> how does covid transmit

It seems likely that they were drinking sewage-contaminated water. Ingestion of contaminated water is the source of a staggering variety of illnesses for both humans and animals. Souce: I work in environmental monitoring.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#194

Post by sleepysysadmin »

lamontcg wrote: post #173
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever? Our government loves to pat themselves on the back having 80% vac…

> Vaccine doesnt work. 80% vaccine efficacy. We were hoping for 50% so that's actually pretty good. This is on par with "we had a snowstorm so climate change isn't real" levels of logic. Abbott has a mild case and isn't sucking on ventilator.

>80% vaccine efficacy. We were hoping for 50% so that's actually pretty good.

CDC says 94% efficacy. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm

Immunocompromise is 6%. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/blog/immunocompromised-... - Estimates are that about 6.2 percent of adults ages 18-64 in the U.S. are living with weakened immune function,

The vaccine is 100% effective for healthy fully vax people. That 6% is concerning and will differ amount countries im sure.

>This is on par with "we had a snowstorm so climate change isn't real" levels of logic.

I find your analogy to be very telling. You have moved to another political issue that is quite divided along the same political lines.

>Abbott has a mild case and isn't sucking on ventilator.

Does abbott have a compromised immune system? Shrug?

Should we even discuss the possibility that covid testing has high false positive testing? That Abbott never had covid and his more recent tests only days later he tested negative.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#195

Post by josephcsible »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #107
leoedin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what's the end goal? Do we keep lockdown restrictions forever? The case fatality rate for a vaccinated population is really low. There must be an acceptable level - after all we don't lock down for other endemic viruses which also have non-zero CFRs. What is it? Have we reached it?

We'll have to have some restrictions in place for the highest-risk activities. I really wouldn't want to give introductory lectures in a room that seats 250 people and has been in use all day and then find out, like the Reverend Jackson, that the vaccine protection has worn off.

For how long? Certainly you can't mean forever.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#196

Post by geofft »

cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

Long-term mask-wearing seem like an entirely reasonable social change.

It's like any other clothing: you're protecting a vulnerable part of your body and also displaying respect for others. And it's mostly enforced by social norms: though in many places it is in fact illegal to go without clothing, people wear clothes regardless of the law. (I was in San Francisco at the time the public nudity ban, or shall we call it the "clothing requirement," was passed, and I can assure you that people were generally clothed in San Francisco even before then.)

As another comment pointed out the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28255121), it's not just going to be SARS-nCoV-2. There's going to be a lot more easily communicable diseases in the future in dense locations. And there was the first SARS, of course, and countries hit hard by the first SARS already adopted a norm of mask-wearing in crowded locations like public transit, which helps them with other diseases that are "here forever" like the seasonal flu.

I think mask-wearing in public is going to become a sign of basic respect and decency and hygiene. We're already comfortable with "No shoes, no shirt, no service."

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#197

Post by dragonwriter »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #179
001spartan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Returning to normal is a terrible idea when COVID patients are overwhelming hospitals across the world. How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse? You might be willing to accept the risk of getting sick on your behalf, but by advocating a return to 'normal' before we have the capabilities to deal with this virus, you are advocating for putting even more stress on healthcare systems acros…

Are they really overwhelming hospitals? This keeps being repeated but most hospitals operate at about 80% capacity as-is. Places in Tennessee and Florida are currently, with COVID-19, operating at about 80%. [0] If we look at Israel, which has a very high vaccination rate, we see that they're supposedly running out of hospital space. [1] But the article linked doesn't say _anything about their actual numbers atm_ and…

> Are they really overwhelming hospitals?

Yes.

> This keeps being repeated but most hospitals operate at about 80% capacity as-is.

They aren't overwhelming total hospital capacity, they are overwhelming specialized resource capacity, particularly ICU capacity.

> Places in Tennessee and Florida are currently, with COVID-19, operating at about 80%

In Florida and numerous other states (not Tennessee), there are significant areas over 95% ICU capacity. [0]

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/17/us/covid-delt...

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#198

Post by josephcsible »

Alex3917 wrote: post #104
cm2187 wrote: post #16

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK If you get it after being vaccinated, you still have a ~20% chance of becoming disabled.

That's a really extraordinary claim with no evidence whatsoever.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#199

Post by cfn »

jfengel wrote: post #125
alphager wrote: post #37

> close to full vaccination, like the UK. Why do people not consider kids younger than 12yo as part of the population? MILLIONS of kids can't be vaccinated yet (but will hopefully come december). Any talk of lifting restrictions before march is basically a re-formulated "fuck the kids".

It's not so much "fuck the kids" as "fuck the teachers". Even if you believe that "kids don't get sick from COVID", you can't ignore that teachers do. And many of them are in high-risk groups -- older, with comorbidities. Most are vaccinated, but they're still taking a risk. Teachers are already smarting over the fact that (in the US) they're literally trained to take a bullet for their kids. So when you tell them to…

Isn't it easier and safer to vaccinate the teachers? There are less of them and they are of the age where the current vaccines are considered safe.

Re: The Coronavirus Is Here Forever

#200

Post by [deleted] »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #152
001spartan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Returning to normal is a terrible idea when COVID patients are overwhelming hospitals across the world. How can things be normal if our healthcare systems are nearing collapse? You might be willing to accept the risk of getting sick on your behalf, but by advocating a return to 'normal' before we have the capabilities to deal with this virus, you are advocating for putting even more stress on healthcare systems acros…

Politicians say this all the time. I doubt anything we can do can change this. Just build more hospitals. We have resolved the masks shortage, we will resolve the shortage of ventilators and hospitals also. We can even soften the shortage of medical personnel by directing the unemployed to paid full-time medical boot camps. I understand this is much easier said than done but we hardly have a choice if we actually wan…

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