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ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

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Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pay much better in USA where they also hire. SE salaries are obviously a lot smaller in Europe, thinking about FAAMG numbers is fairytales :)

Optiver hires in Amsterdam with comparable compensation to top US companies.

Unrelated to this thread, but I always found 'optiver' such a weird name for a Dutch company. Sounds to me like "optiefer". "Optiefen" is a Dutch way of saying "fuck off".

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't fabs already rigged with explosives in case of invasion?

Is this a real thing ?

"rigged with explosives" is likely a bit of an exaggeration.

It would not be difficult to conduct a campus-wide evacuation then have the Taiwanese Air Force destroy the facility with targeted weapons. It might also be the case that the facility's precise coordinates are well-known to Taiwanese military's artillery units and the entire place could be reduced to rubble in minutes.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true in general. In this case, however, there are no efforts I am aware of in the industry that can catch them. Their technological lead is so great, in so many subsystem and science areas, it's likely they will be defacto monopoly in this space for 20 years.

China flat out bribing, kidnapping or blackmailing ASML employees seems perfectly viable. Or sneaking operatives into ASML to steal trade secrets. China is the best in the world at this and they now have huge incentive to try even harder

I wouldn't consider higher wage for engineers and scientists the same as bribing. I mean, one of silicone valleys key strength is the ability for companies to poach from competitors in order to catch up, this cross pollination of ideas is both beneficial to the industry AND individuals.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#145
post #139

A few highlights from a conversation with a friend who works for Zeiss and regularly deals with ASML (take this with a grain of salt, I may have misunderstood some of it and he also may not be an expert in all of these areas): - The lenses (actually mirrors for EUV) only demagnify by a factor of 4. So your wafer template is already extremely small and costs millions to produce. - 13.5nm is pretty much the smallest wa…

> - He said they're not very affected by the chip shortage.

You bet! TSMC/Intel/Samsung must give them for free; also give them the first of each batch they make, as samples to be analyzed.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#146
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like something governments could help with.

There are a number of companies that can produce lithography machines, just not on the same level as ASML (at the moment anyway). Even if we ignore any patent/IP and upfront investment issues, designing and actually constructing machines which are on par with ASML's is not an easy task and will take years of research, assuming the project succeeds in the first place. What ASML is doing now is the culmination of years…

I agree it's a tall order to compete with ASML, patents notwithstanding. So yes patents are not everything, even though cross-licensing is beneficial, rather than invent it yourself.

Actually the James Webb telescope, which has a scheduled launch this year, started out in 1996.

Given the 25 years it has taken so far and a huge amount of money, then it's not too far fetched to imagine someone replicating a space telescope.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope

And now it seems that the name might be changed before launch.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02010-x

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#147
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda off-topic but what's it like working at ASML? They are hiring for a lot of software roles at the moment. I've been mulling about applying there but from the outside it looks very bureaucratic (at least that's what the Glassdoor reviews seem to indicate).

I applied there, they asked me what I would do if there was too much work for the week. Of course I answered I would just work nights, np. No, they said: Go to your team lead tell her/him you can do one thing and discuss what to choose. They don’t want people getting burned out, they are too important. I liked that.

> Of course I answered I would just work nights

Was this intended as a joke or would you really work nights just because there was too much work?

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US is already blocking them from exporting to China This might actually be a good thing for China. In a "necessity is the root of invention" kinda way. Ultimately this might be good to the world too, competition is generally a good thing.

This is true in general. In this case, however, there are no efforts I am aware of in the industry that can catch them. Their technological lead is so great, in so many subsystem and science areas, it's likely they will be defacto monopoly in this space for 20 years.

I don't understand this. They made it, surely someone else can too? Are we on the verge of a bunch of industries using hyperspecialization as a monopoly justifier? I mean this sounds just like what I used to hear pre-Snowden about DARPA and the NSA etc, 20 years ahead of the public.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#149
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if a geolocation cannot be falsified :)

Can geolocation easily be falsified? Sure you can jam GPS, but can you easily falsify it? I'm not an expert, but I was surprised to learn that GPS chips aren't as simple as I imagined. E.g. to get a "normal" (civilian I guess) licence you have to manufacture your chips so that they shut down if the object is moving too quickly (otherwise it could be used for missiles).

Yes, it can be pretty trivially falsified. https://github.com/osqzss/gps-sdr-sim

It can be done for probably less then a thousand dollars, even.

It's also pretty trivial to detect the simple falsification schemes, but outside of exotic military and research projects, none of the easily available GPS SoCs bother.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wealth gap is a lot bigger in the US and here you can walk into a hospital even when you’re homeless and leave debt free. Anyone can apply for social security of about 1000 eur/month. People are only homeless when they have mental issues preventing them from following the steps to get them out and they can get help at any point. This is pretty different from the US.

I don’t disagree with what you wrote but I don’t understand what it has to do with differences in software engineer salaries between the US and the Netherlands.

I think GP meant more taxes to cover for country infrastructure (roads, power, etc) , schools, universities, health insurance, pensions, ie the 'all inclusive for everyone' package which is more common in Europe than in the US.

Some of these taxes are paid for by employers. Edit:and they cover costs for everyone, including non employees (they're generic taxes, not employer-funded health insurance). So you have 'not the whole population' funding the whole population.

Basically, it's more expensive for the company to hire you, so you get less.

I remember talking to a company which could hire me either in the US or in the EU. US paid better because cost of employment was lower, but at the expense of an overall less complete package for me and my family which I would have had to complete with my own money .

In the end, you can't really compare raw salaries - you need to look at what's included, and what kind of cost of living you will incur.

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