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ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

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Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#111
post #20

Twitter won't show complete threads now without an account. :( Twitter accounts basically de facto require a phone number, or they get suspended.

It doesn't, sure you'll get suspended alright, but you can appeal and get unlocked if you persistently tell that you don't have a cellphone.

Which in my case is true, and yes I know I sounds like that guy: https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-d... ;)

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#112
post #26

So what does TSMC then do that no one else can replicate if they use these machines?

Peripheral knowledge (worked in Taiwan earlier):

I suspect the following might be a big part of the secret sauce:

a) Having a culture where EE work is more prestigeous than software work, leading to smart people going there.

b) Having spent decades on scaling up the national university system for engineering educations, starting from the 80s electronics design/manufacturing boom.

c) Having a low salary level, internationally speaking.

The combination of a large, smart and affordable work force for something like this is pretty hard to beat.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#113
post #24

I feel like ASML is the company that almost everyone who would care has heard of at this point. Granted, I hadn't heard of them 3 years ago, even though I work directly with HW designers. Its just funny how they're going through the hype cycle in their level of public awareness. Give it 3 years and (hopefully) the "general public" won't have to care about them again, because chip shortages are resolved :)

ASML will matter for decades unless a competitor surpasses them. US is already blocking them from exporting to China https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-wants-a-chip-machine-from... the company is probably as important as TSMC in terms of geopolitics now

> US is already blocking them from exporting to China

This might actually be a good thing for China. In a "necessity is the root of invention" kinda way. Ultimately this might be good to the world too, competition is generally a good thing.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#114
post #72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda off-topic but what's it like working at ASML? They are hiring for a lot of software roles at the moment. I've been mulling about applying there but from the outside it looks very bureaucratic (at least that's what the Glassdoor reviews seem to indicate).

As someone who currently works there it is indeed bureaucratic. But I also feel like it is an environment that focuses less on cost/money and optimizes for the highest quality. I.e., there is room to explore the best way of doing something and there is less pressure to do it ASAP or for the lowest price.

So, just like any rich company really.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#115
post #19
post #4

Seems like quite a risk to only have one company provide these machines. Semiconductor companies seem to follow the same trend, the major contributing factor seems to be the patent portfolio needed to secure cross-licensing deals. It looks like patents are actively preventing new companies in the semiconductor business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_second_law : “the cost of a semiconductor chip fabrication plant doubles every four years” I can’t find it, but I’ve seen people extrapolate that to compute when there would be room for only one fab in the world. Seems we’re there for one part of a fab.

This law is really cancelled by Wirth's law

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#116
Herein is described the most convenient manner to generate the precise wavelength of light required to print on EUV photomask:

- A molten tin droplet drops into a vacuum

- It's pulsed by a high-power (25kW) laser

- Tin atoms are ionized, creating plasma

- A precision ground concave mirror captures EUV radiation emitted by plasma

- The Mirror transfers EUV to wafer (wavelength=13.5 nanometers, basically X-ray level, through a series of reducing lenses...)

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML will matter for decades unless a competitor surpasses them. US is already blocking them from exporting to China https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-wants-a-chip-machine-from... the company is probably as important as TSMC in terms of geopolitics now

> US is already blocking them from exporting to China Which works until China invades Taiwan. Then what?

Then what? Probably a fight that will result in one of the greatest blows to the global economy ever, as well as the collapse of China as we know it today.

The Taiwanese will destroy all the fabs before China can take them. We already have a chip shortage, can you imagine what it will be like to cut current supplies by another 40-50%? The resulting sanctions alone would cripple China.

Hence, status quo will remain, and Taiwan will continue to be a prop for nationalist speeches in China and the US defense industry will continue to make a mint off selling them old gear.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#119
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US (supposedly?) blocked ASML from exporting its machines to China. ASML is a Dutch company.

ASML may rely on ITAR / dual use parts they enables export control by the US. Or, the US is simply applying a diplomatic squeeze on the Netherlands.

The original EUV research was done in US government labs.
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