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ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

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Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#11
post #5
post #4

Seems like quite a risk to only have one company provide these machines. Semiconductor companies seem to follow the same trend, the major contributing factor seems to be the patent portfolio needed to secure cross-licensing deals. It looks like patents are actively preventing new companies in the semiconductor business.

I think the extreme cost and risk to enter the business is the key issue.

Sounds like something governments could help with.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the extreme cost and risk to enter the business is the key issue.

Sounds like something governments could help with.

Indeed. Only time that happened was in East Germany and it didn’t work out too good.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like something governments could help with.

Indeed. Only time that happened was in East Germany and it didn’t work out too good.

That wasn't the only time.

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#15
post #6
post #4

Seems like quite a risk to only have one company provide these machines. Semiconductor companies seem to follow the same trend, the major contributing factor seems to be the patent portfolio needed to secure cross-licensing deals. It looks like patents are actively preventing new companies in the semiconductor business.

That, and upfront investment costs. Very few companies have a few spare billion to pour into setting up the infrastructure, plus deal with resource deals, regulations, politics etc.. I'm pretty sure that a lot of countries would prefer to be a bit more independent on the semiconductor side, but getting up and running is hard. > It looks like patents are actively preventing new companies in the semiconductor business.…

Yeah they have trade secrets. Patents are nice and all, but good luck sueing in China. Even if you win, it’ll be a one-time fee

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like something governments could help with.

Indeed. Only time that happened was in East Germany and it didn’t work out too good.

It’s quite a bit more nuanced. I recommend reading some work by Mariana Mazzucato to get some perspective.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mariana%20mazzucato

Re: ASML, a $300B Dutch firm, makes the machines that make semiconductors

#19
post #4

Seems like quite a risk to only have one company provide these machines. Semiconductor companies seem to follow the same trend, the major contributing factor seems to be the patent portfolio needed to secure cross-licensing deals. It looks like patents are actively preventing new companies in the semiconductor business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_second_law: “the cost of a semiconductor chip fabrication plant doubles every four years”

I can’t find it, but I’ve seen people extrapolate that to compute when there would be room for only one fab in the world. Seems we’re there for one part of a fab.

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