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The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

economist.com

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Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#111

Post by IAmGraydon »

ghyiihdruh wrote: post #58

No, it doesn't. It will only fuel anti-science sentiment all over the world and put scientists under scrutiny and attacks. We need more science, not more science attacks. It will also vindicate Trump like anti-scientists just when we need more science to tackle climate change, inequality, gender gap, and yes, search for viruses with pandemic risk due to human encroachment on wild life so we can be ready for them. Any…

Wow. This is perhaps the most foolish reply I’ve seen on HN in months. Yes, let’s just bury our heads in the sand so we can learn nothing from our mistakes. Unbelievable.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#112

Post by IAmGraydon »

cblconfederate wrote: post #13

Why? What would that change, apart from distracting everyone into another giant anti-china campaign? Would we solve covid if we knew how it came to be synthesized?

I remember when HN was full of intelligent, well thought out discourse. More and more lately, we’ve been seeing people like the poster I’m replying to. I hope the mods get it under control.

What would it change? How about knowledge that could help prevent a future pandemic and the deaths of millions of people? Why do I even have to make this statement?

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#113

Post by sofixa »

luckylion wrote: post #89
dTal wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've made a category error. We're not talking about the lost schmucks who've bought into this claptrap - we're talking about whose bright idea it was in the first place, and who's making an effort to spread it. Someone is providing those "alternative theories". You dig around a little and you find dubiously funded websites and media outlets pushing this stuff, as well as the more unsavory elements of media…

> Someone is providing those "alternative theories". I'm not sure they are. I mean, sure, for some things, there's likely someone somewhere making it up, but others just come to live by themselves. A lot of them remind me of the preppers. They also have plenty of scenarios and end up in similar places on practical questions. And companies around that also were created or took up some of the content to market to them.…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/covid-misinfor...

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#114

Post by ryandrake »

ramblerman wrote: post #55
underwater wrote: post #30

If you want to chase a conspiracy that actually matters, go find out who is pushing the narrative that COVID is fake and vaccines are dangerous. That conspiracy is literally killing thousands of people.

Why not both? Two things can matter at the same time. If covid did leak from a lab, accidentally, but there was a cover up, that's also worth exploring no? It feels like you are choosing because of political motivations.

Why does the origin story matter, outside of political motivations? If we knew 100% how it came into being, what specific information does that give us that helps the world eradicate it, or deal with future pandemics?

The whole "lab leak investigation" is a political side show attempt to distract people away from the real question, which is how did almost every country on earth utterly fail to control the spread and avert catastrophe? Both questions are fine to answer, but one of them might provide actionable information for future pandemics, and the other one is purely political blame-game.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#115

Post by blitzar »

syshum wrote: post #107
blitzar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they ran tests on samples taken between January 2018 and December 2019 and found the presence of the virus genome in one of them, collected on March 12, 2019. “The levels of SARS-CoV-2 were low but were positive,” research leader Albert Bosch was quoted as saying by the university. quote must have been taken out of context for propaganda purposes

From comments, and look at the actual study [1] I have 4 Points 1. No additional verification has been found since, leading to the probability that it was a false positive 2. The researches final paper and subsequent research only talks about finding indicators after Jan 2020 3. The original March 2019 only had 2 of 5 indicators, and seemed to be a data anomaly we should not be writing sensationalist news stories on…

> The actual researchers do not make this claim.

Directly from the study you have referenced that is the topic of discussion here [1].

"All samples came out to be negative for the presence of SARS-CoV-2 genomes with the exception of March 12, 2019, in which both IP2 and IP4 target assays were positive. This striking finding indicates circulation of the virus in Barcelona long before the report of any COVID-19 case worldwide."

As for your assumption of my personal beliefs. You could not be more wrong, nevertheless, I am responding to your statements which are directly refuted by the information you yourself have provided.

First, the study didnt exist, then the text didnt say what it did say, then it did say what it said, but they didnt mean it. One by one your comments have been, well baffling to say the least. What exactly is your agenda? What are your political biases? Its like having a real life conversation with Tucker Carlson.

It is 100% (99.99999%) established that it originated in China, but to deny basic facts, basic logic, basic everything in pursuit of, well I dont know what you are trying to prove? You can hate China as much as me and not just make shit up, there is adequete evidence without going all fox news on random people on the internet.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#116

Post by davidjytang »

beloch wrote: post #61
zpeti wrote: post #2

Things like this usually come down to incentives. And right now I don’t see how almost any major power’s leaders have any incentive to push an investigation forwards. We are too dependent on China to piss them off, and so far experience shows we are much more likely to follow their demands than follow our own (Hollywood, NBA, Hong Kong, blizzard, albeit only one of those is geopolitical).

It's important to realize that the world's dependence on China is actually interdependence . People fear what might happen if China suddenly blocked all exports to their country, and rightly so. China is a country where the government wields that kind of totalitarian power. However, this hasn't happened even once yet. The Chinese government knows that, once they play that particular card on one nation, every other na…

Very true. Nations depends on China's cheap manufacturing as China depends on other nations' order.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#118

Post by redis_mlc »

beloch wrote: post #61
zpeti wrote: post #2

Things like this usually come down to incentives. And right now I don’t see how almost any major power’s leaders have any incentive to push an investigation forwards. We are too dependent on China to piss them off, and so far experience shows we are much more likely to follow their demands than follow our own (Hollywood, NBA, Hong Kong, blizzard, albeit only one of those is geopolitical).

It's important to realize that the world's dependence on China is actually interdependence . People fear what might happen if China suddenly blocked all exports to their country, and rightly so. China is a country where the government wields that kind of totalitarian power. However, this hasn't happened even once yet. The Chinese government knows that, once they play that particular card on one nation, every other na…

> It's important to realize that the world's dependence on China is actually interdependence.

Nonsense, the CCP sees other nations as tributary nations.

> However, this hasn't happened even once yet

Man, get a clue:

- The CCP has embargoed most Australian food imports to China for a year for demanding a corona investigation

- The CCP has coerced several South American nations that needed corona vaccines into toeing the CCP line

- The CCP has threatened the US by cutting off rare earths.

- The CCP has denied capital exports since 2016

The CCP is nothing but threats.

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#119

Post by bilvar »

notacoward wrote: post #94
bilvar wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was no foul play why the fuss to cover it up then?

That's a circular argument. You're using the assumption of foul play to characterize the response as a cover-up, and the putative existence of a cover-up as evidence of foul play. Be better.

I think it’s undeniable now that the US did fund reaserch in the WIV, why do I need further evidence for that when Fauci himself has admitted so?

The cover-up was Daszak and co. pre-emptively denouncing lab leak theories as an attack on science and branding them as crazy conspiracies.

The only remaining thing to determine is whether the funding went into gain-of-function research, which Fauci vehemently denies but given his track record of lying it’s only natural to be hesitant in believing him. I’m far from an expert but according to the BBC[1] there do exist experts who believe Fauci not admitting it is just relying on semantics.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57932699

Re: The world needs a proper investigation into how Covid-19 started

#120

Post by jaybrendansmith »

dTal wrote: post #80
luckylion wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it would be a conspiracy only they conspired to do so. I don't think that's the case with most of them. There are a lot of movements coming from different backgrounds, believing in different things that are meeting at "it's not real, don't get vaccinated". The Bill-Gates-Wants-To-Kill-Us-people aren't conspiring with the Big-Pharma-Wants-A-Perpetual-Vaccine-Business-People, they just happen to come to the same co…

I think you've made a category error. We're not talking about the lost schmucks who've bought into this claptrap - we're talking about whose bright idea it was in the first place, and who's making an effort to spread it. Someone is providing those "alternative theories". You dig around a little and you find dubiously funded websites and media outlets pushing this stuff, as well as the more unsavory elements of media…

Wait, I know that one. To anyone paying attention there is Putin money behind much of this, just as there is evidence of his involvement in Trump and Brexit. Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56423536 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... And yes, OAN, Sinclair, and Fox News have been 'asking questions' and airing voices who have definitely slowed the vaccine uptake, careful to keep their own plausible deniability. Source: https://www.cnn.com/videos/media/2021/07/14/fox-news-newsmax... These organizations, in my opinion, should be held to legal and financial accountability for their actions. At least, they would, in a just world.
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