The mutation that helps Delta spread • Hacker News Board

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#611

Post by betwixthewires » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #559

betwixthewires wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're doing is called a character attack. I agree with you about zero hedge, but that doesn't change what you're doing. A character attack is usually used when one doesn't have a counterpoint against the point being countered. "There are financial incentives to sell vaccines" might be a conspiracy theory, but anyone not considering this reality a factor is delusional. I don't think they're selling us snake oil…

If you don't make it clear that bullshit is bullshit, if you pretend like it belongs to the realm of sanity, then the debate becomes a farce - some kind of Monty Python absurd comedy.

Sure, but "there are financial incentives to push vaccines" is not bullshit. It is very real, and probably a non negligible factor in how the PR around them is being handled. Not to say public health is not a factor, probably the largest factor, but profit is always a factor as well and in this case would be a very real perverse incentive.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#612

Post by betwixthewires » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

Teever wrote: post #520

betwixthewires wrote: post #460

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The difference is that those are worn by choice, and in very specific social situations. A more comparable thing would be to shoes, or shirts, since we are talking about everyone wearing them. It's not just a matter of making it cool, hats are cool and not everyone wears a hat. Facial expression is a very important part of human interaction and I think that will always outweigh any amount of cool that can be pumped i…

Waitresses do not wear high heels by choice and there are some jurisdictions that have banned employers from mandating that waitresses must wear heels. Additionally I doubt that many would chose to wear an uncomfortable necktie to work if they weren't mandated to by their employers.

Aren't we glad social structures are moving away from these requirements?

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#613

Post by sreque » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

jjwiseman wrote: post #296

sreque wrote: post #232

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This article completely destroy the CDC's report: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/08/more-voodoo-e... . The CDC's report is a fantastic example as to why the CDC don't deserve our trust. They are dishonest. They cherry pick data to fit their narrative. They are unburdened by the constraints of peer review. They admit in their own study that it can't apply causation and yet they remain silent as the media…

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-... argues that people are misinterpreting the Israeli data due to Simpson's paradox: In the case of vaccine efficacy vs. severe disease, it is the fact that both vaccination status and risk of severe disease are systematically higher in the older age group that makes overall efficacy numbers if estimated without stratifying by age misleading, producing a pa…

Thanks for sharing this analysis. I scanned through it and it seems reasonable to me. I don't think anyone actually thinks natural immunity is 7 times as effective as vaccine immunity, as the numbers suggest might suggest without deeper or more thorough analysis.

As far as I can tell, the analysis you link also continues to support the notion that natural immunity works wonderfully well, on par with or better than vaccine immunity as far as we can tell.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

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Post by washadjeffmad » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #603

washadjeffmad wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masks are a new hygiene standard. Do you think the enlightened gentlemen doctors of the age actually set a bar of how many women should die before they began to wash their hands? They smeared, they waffled, and now they serve as the warning to all of the the terrible, prideful (and filthy) fools who robbed families of their wives, daughters, and mothers over something people today balk at the idea of not doing- washi…

Jesus Christ we aren't talking about backyard c-sections with gritty fingernails here. We are talking about breathing the air and smiling at others. Get a grip.

Sorry, I spent this morning figuring out the words to share at a friend's memorial. I've been emotional.

He was vaccinated, he wore a mask, he was careful. He did his part and hurt nobody.

I hope whoever gave it to him never finds out what it cost so they could smile at others and breathe the air. I'd trade their life for his in an instant.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#615

Post by throwaway199998 » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

washadjeffmad wrote: post #614

betwixthewires wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ we aren't talking about backyard c-sections with gritty fingernails here. We are talking about breathing the air and smiling at others. Get a grip.

Sorry, I spent this morning figuring out the words to share at a friend's memorial. I've been emotional. He was vaccinated, he wore a mask, he was careful. He did his part and hurt nobody. I hope whoever gave it to him never finds out what it cost so they could smile at others and breathe the air. I'd trade their life for his in an instant.

Your appeals to emotion are not an argument. You are mentally ill.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#616

Post by throwaway199997 » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

washadjeffmad wrote: post #614

betwixthewires wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ we aren't talking about backyard c-sections with gritty fingernails here. We are talking about breathing the air and smiling at others. Get a grip.

Sorry, I spent this morning figuring out the words to share at a friend's memorial. I've been emotional. He was vaccinated, he wore a mask, he was careful. He did his part and hurt nobody. I hope whoever gave it to him never finds out what it cost so they could smile at others and breathe the air. I'd trade their life for his in an instant.

Your appeals to emotion aren't an argument. You are the definition of mentally ill.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#617

Post by encryptluks2 » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #580

encryptluks2 wrote: post #514

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Government employees have a habit of doing that.

Do you think government employees do it more than non government employees?

It isn't about who lies more, it is about who is in a trusted position.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#618

Post by BjoernKW » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

sfink wrote: post #486

BjoernKW wrote: post #189

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I've been asking those questions for about 16 months now and hardly anyone of those in charge is willing to even consider an answer. They just botch and bumble their way through from one lockdown to the next. The COVID-19 vaccines are a boon and a vital component for ending this crisis. However, they're not the panacea those in charge made them out to be. Make no mistake, those vaccines, particularly those of the mRN…

My impression is that the tests are not yet fast, accurate, and noninvasive enough for #4. I'm skeptical that we can vaccinate our way out of this mess completely, and I don't think we can test our way out yet either. If we can improve the tests sufficiently, though, then I think your plan makes a lot of sense. I think of COVID as fire. Keep the fuel damp (#1, #2, natural immunity), don't pile up too much in one plac…

There are saliva tests, which is probably as non-invasive as it gets. They're currently not quite as accurate (about 95%) as nasal swab tests (99%, if applied correctly) but still good enough to catch most infections. The biggest problem with these tests probably is getting a proper sample.

Still, that's at least by orders of magnitude better than simply doing nothing. Besides, an accuracy >= 95% with results in less than 15 minutes isn't that bad at all already.

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#619

Post by Florin_Andrei » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #611

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't make it clear that bullshit is bullshit, if you pretend like it belongs to the realm of sanity, then the debate becomes a farce - some kind of Monty Python absurd comedy.

Sure, but "there are financial incentives to push vaccines" is not bullshit. It is very real, and probably a non negligible factor in how the PR around them is being handled. Not to say public health is not a factor, probably the largest factor, but profit is always a factor as well and in this case would be a very real perverse incentive.

Drowning in details, missing the larger point that actually matters - are you a software engineer?

Re: The mutation that helps Delta spread

#620

Post by munk-a » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

betwixthewires wrote: post #436

munk-a wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1970s the US required MMR shots for attendance in public schools and the disease quickly tapered off - we've done this before and, so long as the vaccinations aren't inducing a financial burden on individuals that are unable to afford it - I see no issue with requiring vaccination if you want to share a close space with others. A lot of potential partners will reject you if you're unable to provide negative ST…

First, public schools are government institutions, airlines are not. Sure, flight is heavily regulated, but do you want to live in a world where private companies form a cartel and all agree to require a medical treatment, effectively blocking you from long distance travel? Second, their are religious exemptions to mandatory vaccinations. We can argue whether there should be, whether they're abused and all that, but…

To the first point - yes because it's being done for a completely valid medical reason. There isn't a slippery slope argument available here because people consider this reasonable because the cause is reasonable.

To the second point - I think religion does a lot of harm to modern society so I'd rather those all went away - yes even for the amish as inoffensive as they are.