Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#331

Post by teakettle42 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #304

teakettle42 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it harmful to jump to a conclusion too early and blame the victim. The only victims I can possibly see here are those employees that had to review nude images inappropriately stored on a work computer. Apple absolutely does not require that you use your personal iCloud account on your work machines, and any professional should know that it is inappropriate to browse, share, or store nude photos (of anyone) o…

Everyone has days of lax judgement: Excitement over a new job can do this. Anxiety, depression, a sick child, yourself being sick, recent marriage, a big move, and a slew of other things can do this. Apple should be in the position to instruct new employees to create an icloud account for work alongside explaining that the computer they are handed must be turned in at times. The employees aren't the only ones with re…

> Anxiety, depression, a sick child, yourself being sick, recent marriage, a big move, and a slew of other things can do this.

Maintaining a modicum of personal responsibility is not asking for very much here.

In fact, I’d say it’s the bare minimum professionalism requires.

You don’t own your company-provided equipment. This is explained by Apple, in addition to being a patently obvious fact.

If you personally choose to misuse company equipment, that is something you are personally responsible for.

Adults trying to shift blame back to Apple is a remarkable abdication of a simple responsibility. If they cannot exercise good judgement in such a straight-forward case, I question whether they can be expected to operate professionally in the work-force at all.

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#332

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

renerthr wrote: post #189

Spooky23 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. +100 I used to think people were paranoid about this stuff until I ran a big email system. Most big companies have a department in compliance or counsel that reads your mail, either in response to a complaint or randomly depending on the industry. Accused of sexual harassment? Your JDate and Match emails support the idea that you’re lonely. An external entity thinks somebody embezzled money? Your late credit ca…

> Most big companies have a department in compliance or counsel that reads your mail They read the email of your personal email account if you use it in the company-owned phone? Or they read the email of your company email account? In other words, when you say 'This. +100', what do you mean by 'This'? The parent comment raised many points and I'm confused as to which one you're referring to. Edit: To be clear, it's m…

There are a few different dimensions here. Note that I’m in the US and have experience specific to larger entities.

For you conducting any personal business on work devices, it is pretty easy for employers to get tools that can detect and even capture that activity. That ranges from grabbing files on the device to periodically or continuously recording screen content.

For conducting personal business on work services, that is trivially searchable with O365 or Google Workplace. Some industries (banking, finance) are required to retain all mail and sample it for policy violations. Sometimes contractors are roped into doing this by contract terms. Sometimes dating coworkers becomes a problem when you communicate on work systems in unexpected ways — anything you do is essentially public.

For conducting business on personal devices, employers cannot generally search through your content. (Unless security or other products are present — for example Crowdstrike or similar EDR tools will log most executable launches) But, if evidence exists that you use personal stuff for business and there is a litigation event or investigation, you can be compelled by a court to turn over your personal gear. That risk depends on what you do for a living and for who. (For example, a government employer may have an inspector general with police subpoena powers, if you are a decision maker in a company, a civil suit may focus on something you said or didn’t say)

All-in-all, the best policy is to keep work away from your personal business and vice versa within reason. The meaning of “Within reason” depends on your circumstances. The issues for a unionized white collar worker at a factory are different than an at-will financial analyst at some big bank.

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#333

Post by dylan604 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

tpxl wrote: post #306

dylan604 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations have to follow guidelines/rules/laws in order to be in good standing. If the corp is sued, the corp will have to respond to discovery requests from the plantiff's attorneys. In the past, so many companies have deleted emails so that they did not have to turn over incriminating evidence has lead to laws being passed that require a minimum amount of document storage. I don't know the details other than it…

The corp having to give out emails on legal requests does not in any way shape or form imply they read your mails regularly. They certainly aren't allowed to in some parts of Europe, even though they have to respond to legal requests.

>imply they read your mails regularly.

No, but the point is they can. And if there is anything they feel they need to protect themselves, they can investigate. Most corp employees are just too damn busy avoiding doing their regular tasks to be bothered to snoop other employee emails. Yes, I agree that it's not like someone is just tasked with reading all email every day. The point is that they can and do when necessary. Once they start reading, they have no idea where the trail ends so they will be reading a lot.

It all comes down to the same thing stated here multiple times, don't send any messages on corp equipment that you wouldn't want to see read aloud in front of your manager/boss or worse a courtroom.

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#334

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

treesprite82 wrote: post #298

btmiller wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the Twitter OP is wayyyy off base here. No one compels employees to merge accounts???? What the hell is this story even. This feels like someone with an axe to grind, and external readers are none-the-wiser to reality internally at Apple. (Obviously thoughts are my own, I do not speak for the company)

Jacob Preston (ex-Apple Firmware Engineer), Ashley Gjøvik (Apple Senior Engineering Program Manager) and Zoë Schiffer (Verge senior reporter) in the linked Twitter thread all seem to be claiming that Apple tells employees to merge their accounts. Encouraging use of a work iPhone as a personal device to "dogfood" is also mentioned. It's a big company though, so possible that policy varies.

[deleted]

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#335

Post by dheera » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

lacker wrote: post #261

dheera wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company has no legal right to even know you have a personal device. You could just say you don't have one. Or just quit the company if they ask you to hand over a personal device.

It's almost always the other party in the lawsuit who is subpoenaing your past communications. Your employer is being forced by the court to retrieve these; it isn't their choice. It is in fact possible for your personal communications to get subpoenaed for a lawsuit related to your work. But, the other party will need some evidence that you had a conversation on a personal device that relates to the lawsuit. They ca…

This is stupid. Reformat your personal device every week as a habitual practice. Keep multiple personal devices. Use voice when possible so that wiretap laws protect you.

Company should have no right to your family communications.

I never use text.

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#336

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

tpxl wrote: post #306

dylan604 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations have to follow guidelines/rules/laws in order to be in good standing. If the corp is sued, the corp will have to respond to discovery requests from the plantiff's attorneys. In the past, so many companies have deleted emails so that they did not have to turn over incriminating evidence has lead to laws being passed that require a minimum amount of document storage. I don't know the details other than it…

The corp having to give out emails on legal requests does not in any way shape or form imply they read your mails regularly. They certainly aren't allowed to in some parts of Europe, even though they have to respond to legal requests.

It depends on locale and industry.

Some companies sample mail and flag for manual inspection.

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#337

Post by pbreit » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #90

pbreit wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. I've never heard first-hand of anyone running into any trouble that this would mitigate. Some people are just crazy overzealously fearful of employers and BigCos.

Not first-hand, but this other thread is an example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241917 And it's not about being fearful. It's about realizing that the relationship between you and your employer is often adversarial. They want to pay you as little as they can get away with for the most work possible. You want the exact opposite. Otherwise why would you have to "negotiate" for a higher salary when you were…

I guess I've never worked for such employers.

> why would you have to "negotiate" for a higher salary

Why not?

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#338

Post by pbreit » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #86

pbreit wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. I've never heard first-hand of anyone running into any trouble that this would mitigate. Some people are just crazy overzealously fearful of employers and BigCos.

Read the parent of the linked tweet. Nudes becoming part of a court record.

I read it but couldn't really determine what exactly happened or how true it was.

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#339

Post by pbreit » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #213

pbreit wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. I've never heard first-hand of anyone running into any trouble that this would mitigate. Some people are just crazy overzealously fearful of employers and BigCos.

I've personally started working for a company that demanded any code that I write during employment for company is owned by them regardless if I write it during working hours or at home. I had to list out each project that I had worked on or continuing to work on to establish a history of before/after start of employment. Any new personal project had to be added to the list after a discussion to see how that project…

How would they even remotely be able to enforce such and thing? And is there any chance they actually would?

Re: Apple explicitly asks employees to merge their personal and work accounts

#340

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #262

Silhouette wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind how many healthcare providers routinely transfer sensitive information over insecure channels like email in the first place and ask the patients or carers involved to do the same. The most basic data protection regulations enshrined in law in my country are being openly violated, to say nothing of medical ethics and patient confidentiality.

In New Zealand the move to email comes after faxes were deemed insecure. It’s pretty much universally used, despite the issues.

I’m not looking forward to the day the US government stops believing in the magical security properties of fax machines with respect to HIPAA.