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Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

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Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#151

Post by vasper »

It's really hard to compare both dev markets. In Europe, salaries varies a lot depending on the country. There is Switzerland where average dev can earn up to 120k CHF (~ $130k) [1], and on the other hand we have Germany with average of 60k EUR (~ $70k) [2]. The UK is rather similar: 60k GBP (~ $82k) [3]. To have a perspective, we can also add Poland to the list: 240 000 PLN (~ $61k) [4]. As you can see, it's not that simple, especially when you take into consideration the tax rates and costs of living in each country.

Annotation: Average gross annual salaries taken from the job boards that require salary brackets: [1] https://swissdevjobs.ch [2] https://germantechjobs.de/en [3] https://devitjobs.uk [4] https://nofluffjobs.com

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#152

Post by evgen »

dom96 wrote: post #137
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #17

It’s funny to see this site gather so many upvotes while the server is down. I think by now everyone knows very well that software engineering salaries are higher in the United States. If the shift toward remote work really comes to fruition, I fully expect EU software salaries to rise. I’ve hired a lot of excellent remote developers in European countries. The trick is to pay them American-level wages, which are ofte…

> I’ve hired a lot of excellent remote developers in European countries. The trick is to pay them American-level wages, which are often substantially higher than what they could get locally. Are there any websites that specifically cater to advertising these kinds of positions? As someone in London currently working at a FAANG it's becoming clear that the only way I can hope even to match my current salary is to A) g…

If you are expecting to get the same total comp as you currently do with with RSUs then your only option in London is fintech or a hft/quant firm. I have received offers from companies in the city that net out to £350k+ as well as a small equity upside, but even at a FAANG your best bet for good comp was to join them in the US and then get transferred to the UK office. It is also worth noting that while the price trajectory for most of these RSU shares has been sharply up in the past decade it can easily plateau or even trend down.

If you really are interested in planning your post-FAANG path with an eye towards the total comp I would suggest networking into fintechs. The better dev jobs are not always advertised, so who you know can help get you in the door before the job is ever posted.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#153

Post by ahoka »

nkingsy wrote: post #74
MattGaiser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is health coverage for FAANG level and other large tech companies in the USA? That has always been a concern of mine moving to the USA. It wasn’t for a FAANG, but one company I interviewed for in the USA wasn’t going to give me health coverage for 6 months.

Most companies offer pretty good health insurance immediately. Usually there are options like Kaiser in CA that are all inclusive similar to what you’d see in Europe. Some offer cheaper options. Some offer options that include health savings contributions from the employer to offset high deductibles.

How do these plans work when you lose your ability to work, like in an accident or longer sickness? Do companies keep you employed? Do you still get to keep the health insurance for a time after this?

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#154

Post by wayoutthere »

the_only_law wrote: post #91
wayoutthere wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do consulting work for those kinds of clients, and we’re having a hard time hiring engineers with a few years experience below $150k. Previous talent shortages were primarily for that top 10% of developer talent / salary, but this one feels different because grunt-level unsexy corporate IT technologists are also in short supply.

It’s interesting how ever within the US, there seem to be worlds of difference. > grunt-level unsexy corporate IT technologists are also in short supply This describes my work experience, and I don’t think I could even get six figures, or would barely break that.

Yeah, the difference is that your average corporation is sitting on a 10% net margin and tech product companies are sitting on a 35% net margin. Product companies are bidding for the best talent among eachother. Corporate IT simply cannot afford to compete with them on salary because their margins don’t support it.

I think we’re going to see a real bifurcation of the economy along these margin lines, where the “haves” and “have nots” are determined by the industry and company you work in.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#155

Post by bbojan »

eterevsky wrote: post #24
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #17

It’s funny to see this site gather so many upvotes while the server is down. I think by now everyone knows very well that software engineering salaries are higher in the United States. If the shift toward remote work really comes to fruition, I fully expect EU software salaries to rise. I’ve hired a lot of excellent remote developers in European countries. The trick is to pay them American-level wages, which are ofte…

> I think by now everyone knows very well that software engineering salaries are higher in the United States. It depends. In Switzerland for example salaries as as high as anywhere in the US while the taxes are somewhat lower.

Taxes are a bit complicated in Switzerland. While they are nominally low, you pay separately for things that are covered by taxes in most other countries. One example would be health insurance.

So while you'll definitely be paying less if you don't have dependents, if you have kids and are earning "normal" money (e.g. 50-100k CHF gross/year), your total tax-like expenses would be similar to most of the Western world.

But marginal taxes *are* way lower than most other countries. E.g. if you're earning 200k CHF gross/year, your marginal tax rate (in Zurich) would be something like 23%.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#157

Post by distances »

rb2k_ wrote: post #22
geoduck14 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I'll have to guess at an insightful comment. Here goes Sure Europeans get paid less - but they also get a bunch of great benefits like time off and government paid health care, so it works out Also, the average salary in America is skewed by FANMAG paying really high salaries In the end, I'm happy with my work and paid fairly. I deserve a 10% raise, but I'm not pressured to switch right now HN of the futur…

my two cents as someone that worked in Europe and the US: > time off I get 21 days in the US, but any holiday that falls on a weekend I am guaranteed to get on a weekday. Ultimately it ends up somewhere around 30 paid days off I would guess. Back in Germany, if a holiday fell on a weekend, I just lost it. > government paid health care In Germany I had to pay 7.5 percent of my salary + my employer had to match that. W…

There's an upper limit for the health contributions though. Software freelancer in Germany ends up paying about 900€/month if they're publicly insured.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#158

Post by langitbiru »

presentation wrote: post #156

It would be cool if rather than averages we could see the distributions. From my experience I bet there's probably a pretty bimodal distribution in comp, averages don't really tell the whole story.

It's trimodal. https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#159

Post by geoduck14 »

tharne wrote: post #53
sneak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans make several multiples what europeans do in this market. Healthcare is expensive, but it's less than 20k/year. The salary differences are frequently >100k/year. You can also negotiate PTO. Passive-aggressive "unlimited" (but not really) PTO is becoming a common bullet point in startup JDs now.

> Healthcare is expensive, but it's less than 20k/year. That's not true. I pay about $10,000 a year for healthcare and my company pays roughly another $20,000. And that's before I have pay per visit up to my rather high deductible. And I work for a large company with good benefits. Healthcare costs in the U.S. are insane and almost hard to fathom if you haven't lived through them yourself.

>I pay about $10,000 a year for healthcare and my company pays roughly another $20,000

Oh wow. What are your circumstances where these costs make sense? Did you/your wife give birth, and someonwin your family have surgery? Are there special circumstances that would jack up the bill?

$30k for a family is REALLY high for almost any situation.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#160

Post by baybal2 »

grumple wrote: post #141
baybal2 wrote: post #87

One thing nobody brings to the front about salaries difference: Eastern Europe is, well, in Europe, and there are a lot of engineers willing to immigrate there. Good English is not as much of a critical requirement in EU, and, in general, more big companies there are ok hiring foreign workers using their own language at the workplace. Once a person is in EU, he becomes mobile withing a few years. EU tech sector has a…

More homogenous and liquid? Than the US? EU speaks 30 languages. That's a big barrier in terms of communication across the EU. And it's definitely not as liquid a labor market as the US where employees and employers can both decide to part ways at any time while the EU has much more stringent requirements as I understand it.

It's counterintuitive, and I also thought like that.

Because there is more choice, and diversity people are more acceptable of accepting a less than ideal fit jobs.

In US, IT workplaces, and especially dotcoms are all very much alike, thus people put much more effort to fit into the system as alternatives aren't going to be much different.

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