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U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#221

Post by hermitdev »

sandworm101 wrote: post #166
peeters wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Illegal (no signal) lane change results in a steering wheel shaker (and optional audio alert). To be clear, tying the warning to the signal isn't about preventing unsignaled lane changes, it's gauging driver intent (i.e. is he asleep and drifting or just trying to change lanes). It's just gravy that it will train bad drivers to use their signals properly.

Is a lane change without signal always illegal? I know that it almost certainly make you liable for any resulting accident, but I'm not sure that it is universally illegal.

Yes, failure to signal is a traffic violation. At least everywhere I've lived/traveled in the US. It's also a rather convenient excuse for police to "randomly" pull you over (I've been pulled over by Chicago PD for not signaling for a lane change, despite actually having done so).

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#222

Post by zip1234 »

cranekam wrote: post #211
zip1234 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how the cars know the speed limit. Maybe someone else knows? My guess is combo of GPS/camera to position correctly on road and the lookup of known speed limit data. Perhaps it reads signs though?

The rental car I am using now certainly a) reads road signs for speed limit information, b) is definitely fooled by signs on off ramps etc. It’s hard to imagine how speed limit systems would work without some sort of vision capabilities — a database of speed limits would never be up to date with roadworks and so on.

Nobody should be using autopilot driving through roadworks anyways.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#223

Post by ac29 »

andreilys wrote: post #148
paul7986 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully automated Self driving cars is either a pipe dream or decades away in which many more people will be killed on the road in the name of technological progress.

which many more people will be killed on the rise in the name of technological progress. Seeing as car crashes are the leading cause of deaths from people aged 1-54, it may be an improvement from the status quo More than 38,000 people die every year in crashes on U.S. roadways. The U.S. traffic fatality rate is 12.4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. An additional 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medi…

> Road crashes are the leading cause of death in the U.S. for people aged 1-54

This isnt true according to the CDC. Cancer and heart disease lead for the 44-54 group, and while "accidental injury" does lead from 1-44, if you break down the data, in many cases vehicle based accidents are not not the largest single source. For example:

Drowning is the largest single cause in 1-4

Cancer is the largest single cause in 5-9

Suicide is the largest single cause 10-14

https://wisqars-viz.cdc.gov:8006/lcd/home

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#224

Post by somerandomqaguy »

zemptime wrote: post #165
TacticalCoder wrote: post #27

I drive a lot across Europe: as in, really a lot, long trip across several countries, several times a year. I drive enough on the highways to know a few scary situations, like the truck driver in a big curve slightly deviating out of his lane and "pushing" me dangerously close to the median strip for example. To me driving requires paying constant attention to the road and being always ready to act swiftly: I just do…

I see a lot of comments here postulating how autopilot is a terribly designed feature from people who appear not to be speaking from first hand experience and now I feel compelled to comment, exactly following that HN pattern someone posted about how HN discussions go. That said thanks for keeping this discussion focused & framed as a system design one, doesn't feel like a Tesla hate train so I feel comfortable hoppi…

I think you two are talking about different things.

You're talking about Autopilot which is just driver assistance technologies; lane keep assistance, adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, etc. It's not to replace driver attention, it's just monitor sections of the road the the driver can't pay attention to full time. The driver is still remaining in control and attentive to the road.

The person you're responding to seems to be talking talking about the Full Self Driving feature who's initial marketing implied that the driver need not be mentally engaged at all or too impaired to drive normally. Which was later back pedal led to say that you need to pay attention.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#225

Post by rad_gruchalski »

lawn wrote: post #191
okareaman wrote: post #137

When I was learning to drive, my grandmother drilled into me to never swerve for an animal that jumps out in front of the car. This saved me when I was driving by the Grand Canyon and jack rabbits kept jumping, out of nowhere seemingly, in front of my car. I drilled "never swerve" into my son and it saved him on a mountain road when he hit a deer. He didn't go into the trees. When I drove in Alaska I asked why the fo…

It's always contextual. If you run into a moose head on, you're in for a very bad time.

That's where the other three rules apply:

1. always pay full attention to where you are because there might be a truck or a family of 5 coming from the opposite direction, 2. never lift, 3. always look in the direction you want to travel in, not in the direction you currently travel

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#226

Post by zip1234 »

Sargos wrote: post #180
zip1234 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, these cars know the speed limits for the road but let you set cruise control/self driving above the speed limit. Seems like for safety purposes that should not be allowed. Not only are people paying significantly less attention but they also are speeding.

Going slower than traffic is actually unsafe and increases the chances of collisions with other drivers.

Going slower than traffic happens all the time. Over the road trucks often have speed governors set to 60-70 mph for example.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#227

Post by occamrazor »

hnarn wrote: post #200
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn't realistically possible on most highways except in the lightest traffic conditions. You are gonna spend some time beside trucks whether you like it or not.

Spending time right next to a truck is completely optional. You can either speed up or slow down, either of them will put you in a position where you are no longer right next to them.

What if there is a more or less uninterrupted row of trucks in the right lane?

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#228

Post by zip1234 »

filoleg wrote: post #192
zip1234 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, these cars know the speed limits for the road but let you set cruise control/self driving above the speed limit. Seems like for safety purposes that should not be allowed. Not only are people paying significantly less attention but they also are speeding.

That’s a feature accommodating realities of driving on public roads, not a bug. If you drive on a 60mph speed limit highway, no one is driving 60mph, everyone is going around 70mph. If you decide to use autopilot and it limits you to 60mph, you singlehandedly start disrupting the flow of traffic (that goes 70mph) and end up becoming an increased danger to yourself and others. Not even mentioning cases when the speed…

Over the road trucks often have speed governors, some companies limit their trucks to 60 mph because it saves a lot of fuel and leads to a much (50%) lower risk of collisions.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#229

Post by hnarn »

occamrazor wrote: post #227
hnarn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending time right next to a truck is completely optional. You can either speed up or slow down, either of them will put you in a position where you are no longer right next to them.

What if there is a more or less uninterrupted row of trucks in the right lane?

We can play “what if” all day, but I’m not interested. In 99,9% of cases you can and should avoid driving next to a large vehicle.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#230

Post by somedude895 »

malwrar wrote: post #187
zemptime wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of comments here postulating how autopilot is a terribly designed feature from people who appear not to be speaking from first hand experience and now I feel compelled to comment, exactly following that HN pattern someone posted about how HN discussions go. That said thanks for keeping this discussion focused & framed as a system design one, doesn't feel like a Tesla hate train so I feel comfortable hoppi…

This expresses the mindset I find myself in when I use Autopilot. It's like enabling cruise control, you're still watching traffic around you but now you don't need to focus on maintaining the correct speed or worry about keeping your car perfectly in a lane. You can more or less let the car handle that (with your hands on the wheel to guard against the occasional jerky maneuver when a lane widens for example) while…

Exactly this. I treat AP like I'm letting a learner drive. Constantly observing to make sure it's doing the right thing. I've been on long road trips and with AP my mind stays fresh for much longer compared to with other cars.
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