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Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

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Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#121

Post by titzer »

after_care wrote: post #63
mbg721 wrote: post #55

Kroger has felt especially intrusive for a couple of decades; it's almost as though they're going out of their way to be manipulative and creepy, right from the store layout where Pepsi is $87.00 at your feet and Coke is $0.75 at eye level, down to the personalized coupons they send you in the mail. But the big stores that don't have loyalty cards are still slurping up data; they just get it from your credit card and…

Pay cash, wear a hat and a mask in store, decline to give them PII. It’s a pretty simple and effective solution.

And walk like a penguin? They have gait recognition.

Revel in the dystopia that's already here. Soon it will be Gattaca. De-gene-erate!

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#122

Post by burntoutfire »

oramit wrote: post #116

I'm honestly perplexed by the discussion here. Why should I care that a grocery store is using this? They already have camera systems - what is it about feeding that data into a facial recognition algorithm that is so awful? They want to identify who their customers are and already do a good job of it with loyalty cards. I often have to show my ID when I buy beer. I'm in a public place where I have no expectation of…

Society is by its nature in part adversarial. If one group gets a new powerful tool at their disposal, it may change the current balance of power in their advantage. Just see how it works in an opposite case - crypto - where the common folks may increase, through innovative technology, their freedom from being herded by governments. The governments are extremely concerned about it, even though cryptocurrencies are perfectly legal and theoretically don't change much (it's just another means of transacting and storing value).

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#123

Post by HWR_14 »

daveslash wrote: post #113
_wldu wrote: post #20

Walmart makes this rather obvious. I was walking down a medicine aisle the other day, and I looked up and saw my face on a screen with green lines outlining it.

I started to type "That's not facial recognition" , then deleted it... The green box that you're describing is recognizing that _A_ face is in view of the camera . This is often used for properly adjusting focus, exposure, etc... I suppose you could call it "facial recognition", because that's exactly what it's doing. But it's fairly benign and passive. This technology exists in my DSLR cameras that have no network c…

Yes. But the only reason they need to identify what is a face in the camera is as a step in facial recognition. It's not like the security cameras are adjusting their focus or exposure.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#124

Post by titzer »

detaro wrote: post #98
jimmaswell wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My answer is to not worry about it and be glad that these practices lower prices.

How do they lower prices?

Exactly. It doesn't lower prices. What it really does is increases profits, which allows them to grow faster than local markets and they can expand and wipe out even more groceries and ends up as a big fat bonus for the executives and shareholders.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#125

Post by eat_veggies »

oramit wrote: post #116

I'm honestly perplexed by the discussion here. Why should I care that a grocery store is using this? They already have camera systems - what is it about feeding that data into a facial recognition algorithm that is so awful? They want to identify who their customers are and already do a good job of it with loyalty cards. I often have to show my ID when I buy beer. I'm in a public place where I have no expectation of…

You don't think there is a qualitative difference between your security footage getting recorded -- maybe watched by a security guard half-paying attention -- and then written over, versus having it analyzed, tracked, and stored for an unknowable amount of time?

Or a difference between having the option of presenting your loyalty card, versus having your face implicitly being your loyalty card, with no way of knowing, and no way to opt out?

Or a cashier glancing at your ID to check that it's legit and promptly forgetting about it, versus having it scanned and tied to the transaction, and combined with your other behavioral data?

When you see a camera on the street corner, is that the same to you as greeting your neighbor?

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#126

Post by sodality2 »

titzer wrote: post #121
after_care wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay cash, wear a hat and a mask in store, decline to give them PII. It’s a pretty simple and effective solution.

And walk like a penguin? They have gait recognition. Revel in the dystopia that's already here. Soon it will be Gattaca. De-gene-erate!

Gravel in the shoes, like Cory Doctorow foretold...

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#127

Post by HWR_14 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #68
SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stores used to make customers feel good about shopping there. Adding elements that make your store feel more like a prison don't help here.

I guess the management at those corporations is so bad they do not realize they are driving profits away by spending money to make it feel like a prison. Or management is using tons of experience and data to do what they have to do to stay in business in a 2% profit margin business, inconveniencing customers if they have to in order to prevent losses so they do not have to close the store.

"This decision must be correct because management is making it" is a strange idea. Clearly they make mistakes. And clearly their data may not be sufficiently deep for "the new security measures make people not want to shop here so they stay away"

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#128

Post by sodality2 »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #61
karmakaze wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that seems like they don't want you to steal at their store by giving deterrent cues. Which parts were practically inconvenient, or slow you down?

It's not about inconvenience or efficiency. It's the hostile signaling Walmart is communicating to their customers. I go to the Target just down the street, and it's the exact opposite experience.

target has far more effective anti-theft, but it's far less intrusive, apparently. https://www.paypath.com/Small-Business/why-target-is-the-wor...

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#129

Post by npteljes »

jimmaswell wrote: post #79
mbg721 wrote: post #55

Kroger has felt especially intrusive for a couple of decades; it's almost as though they're going out of their way to be manipulative and creepy, right from the store layout where Pepsi is $87.00 at your feet and Coke is $0.75 at eye level, down to the personalized coupons they send you in the mail. But the big stores that don't have loyalty cards are still slurping up data; they just get it from your credit card and…

My answer is to not worry about it and be glad that these practices lower prices.

They lower prices how you get free email from Google, seemingly a good deal. When in reality email costs as low as 1 EUR/mo to be a long-term viable business.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#130

Post by rootusrootus »

namelessoracle wrote: post #117
rootusrootus wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home Depot does this now, and it's starting to alienate me. They are conveniently located, but in various places in the stores (presumably in the areas where commonly shoplifted products are kept), they have cameras with screens and as you walk by they ding at you so you'll notice they are recording. I don't like getting treated that way, so I've started shopping more often at Lowes, even though it takes a couple min…

Lowes uses facial recognition tech in their stores. The camera is there all the same. https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/14/22576236/retail-stores-fa...

That is unfortunate. But I will admit that the confrontational method Home Depot uses is more off-putting to me than just knowing that there are cameras doing facial recognition. I assume HD is also using that technology, or will be soon.
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