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California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

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Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for building new reservoirs but you’re incredibly wrong. It’s weird hearing this because I live 500 feet away from a new reservoir built in the 2000s. Literally. I take walks out there, stare at the man-made lake, walk pass by the museum where all the archaeological discoveries were made. I don’t know what kind of subpar journalism goes on at the National Review but they couldn’t be more wrong. https://en.m.w…

Hi fellow hemet HNer!

Small world. Hope you enjoy the town!

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's nice to stop driving etc but the big issue is fossil fuel consumption. That's in the hands of big money. Driving is the biggest source of fossil fuel consumption. Where are you getting your talking points? Think about the last time you filled up your gas tank. Let's say it's 20 gallons of gas. That's an absolutely massive massive amount of fossil fuel, if you think in terms of 5-gallon buckets. Each gallon of…

First: the bigger point is that it will be systemic and collective actions which result in meaningful change. Individual mindfulness and advocacy help, but they're by no means sufficient. On fossil-fuel consumption and carbon emissions: Natural gas and coal combined exceed total petroleum usage (measured in quadrillion BTUs) for the United States. Much of the coal and gas is used in electrical generation, though also…

I said biggest, not majority. But there are also other reasons to focus on transportation over other sectors. The US is an outlier from other developed countries in their high CO2 emissions per person because of their transportation choices. And these choices are hard-baked into the design of our land use, and will be the hardest to change.

Despite the existence of a tiny fraction of electrical vehicles, we are nowhere near on track to decarbonizing in time. In order to naturally shift over to EVs in time, with the natural aging out of gas vehicles, we would have had to be at 100% EV for new vehicles in 2020. We won't be to 100% new EVs any time soon at all.

In contrast, other sectors are really easy to decarbonize. Electricity generation will decarbonize faster than current predictions, because everybody uses old data in their models, and even two year old renewable data is hopelessly out of date.

Heating by heat pumps rather than natural gas is also fairly easy to transition through building codes. Simply requiring all new outdoor AC units to include the $200 switch to also heat would result in a fairly speedy transition for the second largest residential use.

So with the conundrum of transport, the only real solution we have is for people to drive less, while also transitioning to EVs as soon as possible. However we have planned nearly all of the US for car-dependency, and there are very few places to live in the US that don't require a car. Very few. This land use change, to allow car-free living, is a bigger battle than switching away from meat, and far harder to convince people to do. There are so many more vegetarians and vegans than people that acknowledge we should allow less driving, and it's a switch that takes far longer to make.

Further, this switch to less driving is under local control, controlled by local planning committees and local transit committees, not mysterious billionaires living in mansions. It's under supposedly-democratic control, it's just that the people showing up to these meetings are not people who care about climate change, or at least they don't realize the connection between land use and climate change.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the most extreme scenario, can the US create new agricultural fields in other states, cutting down forests if needed ? The weather will change but surely the US will still have arable land enough to feed its citizens (even if they have to forget some kind of crops (pistachio, etc.) aside) ?

If things get that bad, building a nuclear power plant and devoting its power to desalination would probably be more economical and environmentally friendly than cutting down forest for feilds. Hell if it gets that bad building a pipeline to pump water south from the mouth of the Columbia river would be on the table.

How will you cool the reactor without water?

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, where do you live that people have five bathrooms?

And we use all of them...

I would think bathroom use would be the same whether you have one or five bathrooms.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things get that bad, building a nuclear power plant and devoting its power to desalination would probably be more economical and environmentally friendly than cutting down forest for feilds. Hell if it gets that bad building a pipeline to pump water south from the mouth of the Columbia river would be on the table.

How will you cool the reactor without water?

Remember the whole "power devoted to desalination" thing? all you need is the starting freshwater and then it can process its own from sea water.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the most extreme scenario, can the US create new agricultural fields in other states, cutting down forests if needed ? The weather will change but surely the US will still have arable land enough to feed its citizens (even if they have to forget some kind of crops (pistachio, etc.) aside) ?

Sure, but nothing will fully replace the productivity of the California central valley, which has some of the most fertile soil in the world. The Willamette valley up in Oregon is incredibly fertile as well, though it is currently too cold to grow lettuce and strawberries year round. That will change in the coming years but the Willamette valley is about the third the size. Additionally, the Pacific northwest is drou…

>currently too cold to grow lettuce and strawberries year round.

I don't have links, as I found out about by asking what happened in the San Yanez and Santa Maria valleys to someone who works in Ag finance (they are starkly barren compared to what they were just a few years ago and I was very curious), but California berry production has been almost completely off-shored to Argentina. As they explained, berries are a low margin crop to begin with that absolutely requires hand picking, and California's minimum wage laws along with cheaper refrigerate freight have driven the local farmers out of business. He seemed to think that California Ag was completely on its way out, and that we can expect to be importing almost all of our fresh vegetables and fruits from South America.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#187
post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

I will never take any complaint about residential water use in California seriously while there are flooded rice paddies in Sacramento: https://localwiki.org/davis/Rice_Paddies

wow i haven't seen a davis wiki article in ages! really brings me back. probably about to not get any sleep reading through that site now

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#188
post #74

Real quick thing about the water in California: it's important because it is used to make food, which is exported from the state's central plains to the rest of the country. Your mental model should not include the direct water use of humans.. this is and always has been about the economics of food production. So if people leave California, it will be because they can't get jobs in agriculture.. people would be comin…

it's not just pistachios and almonds, it's a full 1/3 of the country's vegetables and 2/3 of the country's fruits and nuts. California's water problems are everyone's water problems.

I'm guessing that is based on dollar amounts rather than calories? In other words, CA may appear to have a larger share than the reality if they focus on more expensive crops like avocados, pistachios, and almonds.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#189
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where in Central Europe? Here (Slovakia) we have hot, dry summers.

Here in Bavaria, Germany, we just had and still have a normal German summer. Lots of rain, highest temperatures still below 30°C (86°F). The rains are more violent though, sudden, lots of water in a short amount of time, high winds, right now even hail (just passed through half an hour ago and there is a warning out for worse conditions in some areas). In another state we just lost well over a hundred people to flood…

Interesting, thank you. Yes, the rains are different here too, there is almost no quiet rain here anymore, it's violent and also it rains much less. Sometimes we go more than a month without any rain at all, which I could not imagine happening 10 or more years ago. Currently we are 100mm under the average on yearly basis, which combined with higher temperatures means everything is drier.

And of course there are more hot spells and they are hotter, last few days were around 33-34°C, which is becoming more and more common. Although we don't get 40°C, for now.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First: the bigger point is that it will be systemic and collective actions which result in meaningful change. Individual mindfulness and advocacy help, but they're by no means sufficient. On fossil-fuel consumption and carbon emissions: Natural gas and coal combined exceed total petroleum usage (measured in quadrillion BTUs) for the United States. Much of the coal and gas is used in electrical generation, though also…

I said biggest, not majority. But there are also other reasons to focus on transportation over other sectors. The US is an outlier from other developed countries in their high CO2 emissions per person because of their transportation choices. And these choices are hard-baked into the design of our land use, and will be the hardest to change. Despite the existence of a tiny fraction of electrical vehicles, we are nowhe…

Vehicle fleet transitions do take time, though if there's a committment to all-electric (and some countries are getting there, none have currently-operative mandates, there's still roughly a 7-year lag for 50% conversion given vehicle life, absent some trade-in scheme.

Another alternative is to promote private-vehicle alternatives: transit, bikes, walkable neighbourhoods, etc. That might occur more quickly, at least within some regions.

Residential retrofits are similarly slow. New-construction mandates effect only a thin margin of housing, and in regions where new housing construct vastly lags demand (coff-California-coff), that would be centuries. There's now talk of retrofits, though easy replacements (stoves/cooking) neglect hard ones (water and space heat, clothes dryers). Again, replacment cycles for those are on the order of 10--20 years, and require considerable grid upgrades.

Your point about the US (and much the rest of the world) being designed for car-dependence is precisely what I'm talking about by "collective action". The private automobile singlehandedly created the dominant land-use patterns of the 20th century, and reversing reliance on the automobile will require utterly transforming land use, again. And that is a collective problem, not an individual one. The most gold/platinum/green LEED ratings for a building do nothing if it induces 40,000 miles of daily private vehicle commute demand. Convert that to walkable, bikable, and LRV transit, and you're avoiding 800 gallons of fuel consumption a day, 160,000 gallons/year.

And that doesn't happen simply through individual mandates.

The influence of "billionaires living in mansions" on housing is stronger than you give credence, as real estate forms a principle asset class for the financial sector, and hence, asset inflation serves multiple interests. This isn't the only factor behind promoting auto-dependent sprawl, but it's an extraordinarily powerful one.

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