Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

phys.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 193 posts

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#151

Post by pvaldes »

scythe wrote: post #129
epistasis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a very complete picture of what's going on with water in California. Even as population has almost doubled, and as agricultural output increases, we have decreased our water usage: https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/ There's a lot to be said for simply not wasting lots of water. If California stopped growing alfalfa, a low value product that is the largest agricultural use of water, w…

Alfalfa is a legume that improves soil [1]. Therefore, it cannot simply be dropped; it would have to be replaced by something. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfalfa#Ecology

Most legumes add nitrogen from air to the soil. The effect can be easily replaced adding industrial urea. On the other hand, many native plants (those that will survive) dislike having too much nitrogen in soil.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#153

Post by rtkwe »

pepperonipizza wrote: post #76
MiscIdeaMaker99 wrote: post #26

I wonder how long it'll take before California starts to see a decrease in population due to scarcity of water.

And how long since we consider that an ever growing population is not a good thing for the environment? When I read medias like Bloomberg, they seem legitime in their climate change coverage, but they always lament the slow growth of US's population.

That's likely coming from different reporters talking about things from different angles. A shrinking population is a potentially big economic issue it puts stress on all sorts of things chiefly the Social Security system in the US (and those like it in other countries).

Ultimately I don't think we'll be able to population shrink our way out of climate change, at least not on timescales and in ways that people are willing to accept. It's just coming too fast and the population changes so slight that it's not going to come in as a last minute solution.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#154

Post by tuatoru »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #131
frazbin wrote: post #74

Real quick thing about the water in California: it's important because it is used to make food, which is exported from the state's central plains to the rest of the country. Your mental model should not include the direct water use of humans.. this is and always has been about the economics of food production. So if people leave California, it will be because they can't get jobs in agriculture.. people would be comin…

Hm. Pistachios, cashews, almonds, various nuts also land on the shelves of German Aldi and Lidl in convenient 200g bags.

Back in the 1980s in Europe, almonds and pistachios came from Turkey (and possibly Bulgaria) and cashews from Angola. I don't know if this is still the case.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#155

Post by phendrenad2 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #35
MiscIdeaMaker99 wrote: post #26

I wonder how long it'll take before California starts to see a decrease in population due to scarcity of water.

10% of water in California is used for urban needs, it’s more likely agriculture will get hit by water shortages first than population growth. But then again, the permitting process is already limited to an extent by available water resources, it’s part of the infrastructure needed to build.

Re-routing water from far-away farms to metropolises will take time, so it's DEFINITELY possible that we'll see water shortages in major cities.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#156

Post by ternaryJimbo »

DantesKite wrote: post #58
eplanit wrote: post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

I’m all for building new reservoirs but you’re incredibly wrong. It’s weird hearing this because I live 500 feet away from a new reservoir built in the 2000s. Literally. I take walks out there, stare at the man-made lake, walk pass by the museum where all the archaeological discoveries were made. I don’t know what kind of subpar journalism goes on at the National Review but they couldn’t be more wrong. https://en.m.w…

Hi fellow hemet HNer!

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#157

Post by pvaldes »

barsonme wrote: post #119
danans wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the things that has puzzled me for a long time is how little thought we have applied over time towards designing and building better homes. We have thought a lot, but the reality is that the market, which we rely on to drive how things like houses are built, has shown that regardless of what they say, people ultimately value a 5th bathroom more than they value energy or water efficiency. The only way to ensu…

Jeez, where do you live that people have five bathrooms?

And we use all of them...

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#158

Post by tuatoru »

robomartin wrote: post #66

One of the things that has puzzled me for a long time is how little thought we have applied over time towards designing and building better homes. Energy and water usage are two elements of this. Regarding water. Every time I wash my hands I wish that water went into a gray water tank instead of being wasted. This water, perhaps with some filtration (or maybe not [0]) could then be used for irrigation. The same is th…

> In other words, just about the only use for "first generation" water at the home would be drinking or cooking.

> Why can't that water be used to flush the toilet?

Re-using "grey water"[1] as the source for "black water" is a big theme in permaculture,[2] which originated in Australia, a famously dry continent.

You absolutely can do that, regulations permitting. There are a few gotchas though, so do your research.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_water

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#159

Post by lazide »

newaccount2021 wrote: post #117
lazide wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Or even just build a canal from the Pacific Northwest - which gets so much water they can’t use almost any of it, even damming everything they can - down south. California has always gone through droughts, and the issue isn’t an actual lack of water (from a support of the population, or even support of agriculture in general). It’s the economics of it, what is cost effective where, and prioritization of what mak…

You can't use words like "always" - large-scale habitation of California isn't even a century old.

Going through a drought doesn’t require habitation? And if a drought exists or not says nothing about demand on the water that arrives, just how much water arrives.

Tree ring records in north America go back approx 12k years. Here is a study analyzing back to 101 b.c. In California specifically [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00193528]

The Spanish also started to colonize California (and keep records) in 1770ish, well before the prior wet spell started in 1850 (and ended in the 60’s ish)

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#160

Post by tuatoru »

giardini wrote: post #111
robomartin wrote: post #66

One of the things that has puzzled me for a long time is how little thought we have applied over time towards designing and building better homes. Energy and water usage are two elements of this. Regarding water. Every time I wash my hands I wish that water went into a gray water tank instead of being wasted. This water, perhaps with some filtration (or maybe not [0]) could then be used for irrigation. The same is th…

Your intentions are good. But if urban use of water is indeed only a fraction (others say 10%) of farming use then we should should first focus on improving the efficiency of water use in farming and/or reducing the need for farming altogether.

There is no "first". City dwellers can do city things, and rural folk can focus on their practices.

This habit of "othering" the problem is how we got here.

Post reply on HN