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YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

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Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#751

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #741
kgarten wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly? the real world evidence is mixed, yes. People are not mannequins, people die. If a simple action of mine, that might make me look silly, might save some lives (might, I don't know, yet from annexdotes countries that had no problem with wearing masks and other measures faired better) I will do what these countries did (and also wear a mask). It's rational compas…

> what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly? Fortunately, "lack of silliness" is not the standard of evidence for a medical intervention. There are a great many things that we might impose on others that might have some impact. There are, in fact, an infinite number of these things. Your desire to do these things "just in case" does not justify their imposition on other people. But more importantly: we'…

Wearing a mask is a medical intervention for you??

wearing a mask is not about protecting you, it's protecting other people. If you don't value other people's lives, don't wear one it won't help you personally.

Ok ... so where is the evidence that they don't work?

Current scientific consensus is on my side of the debate:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

If you know better, do the experiments and the analysis, get it peer-reviewed and we can talk again.

If you are ok with the consequences that you might kill people, don't wear a mask. Fine with me. Just don't tell anybody afterwards that you didn't know and that it was just a guess.

i feel this discussion as tedious as the discussion about vaccinations: https://twitter.com/nathanTbernard/status/142511666690879488...

People are no mannequins ... people die.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#752

Post by kgarten »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #742
kgarten wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is the history of people seeing something basic and getting told by others that it's not true ... E.g. the earth is round. Yet, You can never prove a hypothesis just present more and more evidence. My point: it does not hurt me to wear a mask and it might help people, so I will do it. It seems also that scientists who know more about this than me, support this idea. They might be wrong, yet even if they are t…

Not driving a car might help people also. Not leaving your house also might help people. If it 'might help people' why not either of those options?

Finally we are getting somewhere. I didn't drive a car and I was not often leaving the house in the last year :)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#753

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #741
kgarten wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly? the real world evidence is mixed, yes. People are not mannequins, people die. If a simple action of mine, that might make me look silly, might save some lives (might, I don't know, yet from annexdotes countries that had no problem with wearing masks and other measures faired better) I will do what these countries did (and also wear a mask). It's rational compas…

> what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly? Fortunately, "lack of silliness" is not the standard of evidence for a medical intervention. There are a great many things that we might impose on others that might have some impact. There are, in fact, an infinite number of these things. Your desire to do these things "just in case" does not justify their imposition on other people. But more importantly: we'…

here's a newer paper:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7

(no evidence ... just guesses ... just nature level publication guesses ... probably all wrong)

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#754

Post by pnt12 »

gibba999 wrote: post #336
16bytes wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's a valid area of discussion. There are valid ways to critique the effectiveness of masks. To say, however, that: "Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. That's because the virus particles can go right through them. That's still true. They don't work, there's no value. ... There's no signs to say they're preventing disease." Simply discards the science and overall consensus without addressing…

Science is a process, not a democracy. Overall consensus is irrelevant. I know perfectly good scientists who believe cloth masks are useless. They're in the minority, and I disagree with them, but I can't classify reasonable opinions I disagree with a "misinformation." I went against the scientific establishment early in the pandemic advocating for masks, when consensus was that they were useless. The evidence and co…

He's not a scientist, he's a politician.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#755

Post by nickthemagicman »

kgarten wrote: post #752
nickthemagicman wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not driving a car might help people also. Not leaving your house also might help people. If it 'might help people' why not either of those options?

Finally we are getting somewhere. I didn't drive a car and I was not often leaving the house in the last year :) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7

Good you should continue to do that!

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#756

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #604
srinivgp wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty conclusive. It's been conclusive for years and years, before COVID-19. There's no question at all that masks reduce infectiousness through the extremely obvious method of preventing some virus particles from going from one person to another, and also no question at all that probability of infection depends on number of virus particles around, and that viruses in general produce worse symptoms when the ini…

> You will find literally zero papers credibly claiming otherwise. Of the papers cited in the WHO meta-analysis of face masks and infection [1], all of the (three!) papers from a non-health-care setting had a confidence interval overlapping 1.0 (i.e. "no benefit"). Of those in a health-care setting, about half had confidence intervals overlapping 1.0 (i.e. "no benefit"): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/arti…

Not improved?? I just checked nature...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7

Seems pretty clear to me.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#757

Post by kgarten »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #755
kgarten wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally we are getting somewhere. I didn't drive a car and I was not often leaving the house in the last year :) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7

Good you should continue to do that!

Sacrificing myself? lol ... Doesn't really make sense.

You might want to read the guidelines or stay on 8chan? ... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#758

Post by DrJones1098 »

kgarten wrote: post #753
timr wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly? Fortunately, "lack of silliness" is not the standard of evidence for a medical intervention. There are a great many things that we might impose on others that might have some impact. There are, in fact, an infinite number of these things. Your desire to do these things "just in case" does not justify their imposition on other people. But more importantly: we'…

here's a newer paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7 (no evidence ... just guesses ... just nature level publication guesses ... probably all wrong)

The entire state of Texas lifted all Covid restrictions around March? Had only 16% vaccination rates and had record low levels of Covid infections for 6 months up until recently with apparently the Delta variant.

So don't understand why actual reality contradicts this paper.

If you tell me that millions of Texans followed social distancing rules on their own without a citation, it will be humorous.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#759

Post by kgarten »

kgarten wrote: post #753
timr wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly? Fortunately, "lack of silliness" is not the standard of evidence for a medical intervention. There are a great many things that we might impose on others that might have some impact. There are, in fact, an infinite number of these things. Your desire to do these things "just in case" does not justify their imposition on other people. But more importantly: we'…

here's a newer paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24115-7 (no evidence ... just guesses ... just nature level publication guesses ... probably all wrong)

"So don't understand why actual reality contradicts this paper."

This is similar as saying ... It had the biggest blizzard last winter in Texas, that's why Global Warming is a hoax.

Where is this paper wrong? Maybe you spotted something that the peer reviewers didn't.

Also you should submit your "scientific" observations of Texas ... because it's real reality (not science ... who needs the scientific method, when we have your observations).

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#760

Post by nickthemagicman »

kgarten wrote: post #757
nickthemagicman wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good you should continue to do that!

Sacrificing myself? lol ... Doesn't really make sense. You might want to read the guidelines or stay on 8chan? ... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"it does not hurt me to wear a mask and it might help people,"

This is a very slippery slope argument. I'm not sure you fully thought it through.

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