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YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

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Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#731

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #715
kgarten wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anything that interfere with droplet dispersion is better than nothing ... no? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOwMsCc6NA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAvO_QdO9eM Seems basic to me ... If the droplets from me don't reach to the first person in the cinema I cannot infect them.

Science is the history of people debunking ideas that "seem basic" to other people. Those are called "hypotheses", and they're great. The next step is to find evidence that proves the hypothesis...and that's where we're stuck here.

Science is the history of people seeing something basic and getting told by others that it's not true ... E.g. the earth is round. Yet, You can never prove a hypothesis just present more and more evidence.

My point: it does not hurt me to wear a mask and it might help people, so I will do it. It seems also that scientists who know more about this than me, support this idea. They might be wrong, yet even if they are the negative consequences are so low (I wore a mask for a couple of days ... ) that for me it's worth it.

When I hear Rand Paul, I hear the smuggness of "I know masks don't work" and sorry but we don't know that ... Saying this right now, is showing me that he does not understand science (we don't know, they might help) and that he does not have any compassion.

Fauci seems to have the better track record (seeing how he dealt with AIDS).

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#732

Post by mixmastamyk »

xienze wrote: post #372
Bud wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're leaving out over half of the truth, here. The idea behind universal masking is that EVERYONE is wearing the masks. In other words, the person who might infect you is masked (and cloth masks DO work very well to prevent that person from spewing droplets everywhere), and also, you are wearing a mask too. You are leaving out that first part of the equation, which is the most important part. It's also the part tha…

> and cloth masks DO work very well to prevent that person from spewing droplets everywhere But Covid doesn’t spread exclusively through “droplets”, it’s aerosolized. It’s present in an infected person’s breath, which will escape a mask.

There’s your answer in the question, why you used the word “exclusively.”

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#733

Post by kbelder »

jiggawatts wrote: post #499
kbelder wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 70s they'd be banning people who claimed the Earth wasn't cooling.

Global cooling was never the accepted science, that's an urban legend, like the "we only use 10% of our brains" thing. Global warming was suspected as far back as the late 1800s, and well established by the 1970s.

I was there, and global cooling was on the evening news and the covers of magazines. I can't speak to scientific consensus at the time, but I know it was considered such in popular media.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#734

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #713
kgarten wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... the increase in incidences are coinciding with early travel and reducing the state of emergency related to the olympic. I work at a place that housed one of the teams, and the incidence increased around 1-2 weeks after some people arrived. NHK made a lot of efforts like the one bellow: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1247/ Check the video,I would say masks help. It's basic physics ... it's sim…

> Check the video,I would say masks help. It's basic physics Masks leak. Airflow seeks the path of least resistance. Also basic physics. People are not mannequins in a fume hood with scrap of cloth glued to their slobberhole. I don't think anyone is disputing the idea that if you could somehow hermetically seal off everyone's face holes, you'd stop the spread of a respiratory virus. But we can't, and we don't, so the…

what is the risk of wearing a mask? that you look silly?

the real world evidence is mixed, yes.

People are not mannequins, people die. If a simple action of mine, that might make me look silly, might save some lives (might, I don't know, yet from annexdotes countries that had no problem with wearing masks and other measures faired better) I will do what these countries did (and also wear a mask). It's rational compassion for me.

You might say, I don't care (and science might prove you right or wrong after a long while), yet consider the potential cost if you are proven wrong ... Looking silly versus potentially killing people ... The evidence is not in, and it depends on what you value more ;)

It's your own choice. For me I decided to wear a mask in public, do social distancing and get vaccinated. I think these are reasonable things to ask from people. You don't seem to think that.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#735

Post by newacct583 »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #727
newacct583 wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also...it's an opinion piece from....a university....in San Francisco...the two most notoriously political places in the entire universe and you're saying I'm convinced by MY MEDIA. It's... a medical school. An elite one, no less, doing public outreach. Effectively that link is a review paper written for non-experts, it's certainly not "opinion journalism". I mean, it links to studies throughout the piece. It absol…

A collection of links to Pubmed, CDC, PlosOne, Oxford and other papers. vs An opinion piece. The absolute state of Covid fanatics.

OK, I'll humor you.

I went and clicked on the first two links in that collection, both claimed to show "little to no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks in the general population":

Both were studies of mask POLICY (i.e. does TELLING people to wear a mask work?) and not mask USE (do the masks actually work?). The first was just a historical review of previous pandemics with no ability to look at case studies.

The second looked only at Denmark, an environment where masks aren't common, and didn't even track whether or not the participants actually wore them. All they checked was if they were "recommended" or not. And the kicker? They ACTUALLY DID find a statistically significant benefit to mask recommendation, just not a large one. The inclusion in your magic "collection" is basically a lie.

Now I read two links carefully. Your turn: go back to that UCSF site and read some of the links there.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#736

Post by lamontcg »

xienze wrote: post #355
lamontcg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German health authorities were making the argument that cloth masks weren't good enough if you thought that wearing them meant that you could increase your risk exposure. He's arguing they just don't work and nobody should bother with them at all. The German authorities would agree that if you have to go out to buy food you're better off wearing a mask than none at all. Rand Paul would disagree. Those are two dif…

> He's arguing they just don't work and nobody should bother with them at all. Are the virus particles significantly smaller than the holes in a cloth mask — nevermind the gaps typically present around the wearer’s face — or not? If they’re smaller, how effective can the masks possibly be?

Droplets

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#737

Post by nickthemagicman »

newacct583 wrote: post #735
nickthemagicman wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A collection of links to Pubmed, CDC, PlosOne, Oxford and other papers. vs An opinion piece. The absolute state of Covid fanatics.

OK, I'll humor you. I went and clicked on the first two links in that collection, both claimed to show "little to no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks in the general population": Both were studies of mask POLICY (i.e. does TELLING people to wear a mask work?) and not mask USE (do the masks actually work?). The first was just a historical review of previous pandemics with no ability to look at case studies.…

Mask policy?

You mean epidemiological studies on communities?

Ok....

Masks may or may not work as a stop for particles but do they stop spread on a community level?

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#738

Post by kcplate »

lhorie wrote: post #649
kcplate wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize you are advocating thought policing here, right?

I'm not advocating for anything though? I didn't even claim to agree w/ Youtube in the first place. I merely said that the way they went about this specific case could've been far less controversial if they deferred explaining rationales to the proper health authority rather than taking it upon themselves to decide what "evidence" is factually correct. Besides, thought, speech, broadcasting and individual rights on p…

> Whether Rand Paul's carefully cherrypicked arguments are technically medically/factually correct doesn't really matter, you need to consider the narrative as a whole. Youtube deemed that promoting his overall message is a threat to public health, regardless of whether he made factually correct statements or not.

These couple of sentences came pretty close in my opinion. They read to me as advocacy for the censorship of factual information if you happen disapprove of an opinion the person might hold.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#739

Post by nickthemagicman »

sampo wrote: post #723
nickthemagicman wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You will find literally zero papers credibly claiming otherwise. Here's a paper that says cloth mask usage increases rate of infection. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 Here's a collection of studies refuting mask efficacy. https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/ You're literally a vector for disinformation which is a bannable offense but only the Rand Pauls who go against the narrative get banned. Your f…

> Here's a paper that says cloth mask usage increases rate of infection. > https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 Using cloth masks only, increased rate of infection in relation to the control group. And the control group: "In the control arm, 170/458 (37%) used medical masks, 38/458 (8%) used cloth masks, and 245/458 (53%) used a combination of both medical and cloth masks during the study period." So we can co…

Read that paper again.

Cloth mask wearers had a higher rate of CLI than the control group.

The control group being may or may not be wearing a mask.

"""The control arm was ‘standard practice’, which comprised mask use in a high proportion of participants. As such (without a no-mask control), the finding of a much higher rate of infection in the cloth mask arm could be interpreted as harm caused by cloth masks, efficacy of medical masks, or most likely a combination of both."""

Point is: The CDC mask policy of wearing a dirty cloth rag on your face until the waiter brings the breadsticks is probably not ideal.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#740

Post by FireBeyond »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #737
newacct583 wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll humor you. I went and clicked on the first two links in that collection, both claimed to show "little to no evidence for the effectiveness of face masks in the general population": Both were studies of mask POLICY (i.e. does TELLING people to wear a mask work?) and not mask USE (do the masks actually work?). The first was just a historical review of previous pandemics with no ability to look at case studies.…

Mask policy? You mean epidemiological studies on communities? Ok.... Masks may or may not work as a stop for particles but do they stop spread on a community level?

This just shows your ignorance even further.

"Mask policy" - what a government organization (DOH, city council, what have you) states as its recommended behavior, action, enforcement practices.

And has _absolutely nothing to do with_ epidemiological studies on communities. Nothing. Whatsoever.

Policy: 'you should do X'

Epidemiological study: a controlled investigation into what happens when people do X, when they don't, including how many do, how many don't, and all the circumstances surrounding it.

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