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YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

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Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#671

Post by andybak »

dnautics wrote: post #252
andybak wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't agree that "the precautionary principle" is sufficient justification for a government mandate. It is in many other realms. Why raise the bar for this? This whole thing feels like whatever the equivalent is of "virtue signalling". Why have some groups decided to be so stubborn about this particular thing? It smacks of some identity thing.

I can't answer your very leading question, but there are PLENTY of people who wear masks, are vaccinated, and are scared of mandates, and are consistent about "raising the bar" across the board (For things besides COVID). They just don't get as much media coverage, because that position doesn't fit into a digestible narrative in today's zeitgeist.

Fair points. But some of this appears to be somewhat US specific. In other countries, the mask debate is more of a fringe issue compared to other broader aspects of COVID restrictions. From an outside perspective, masks seem to have taken on an unwarranted significance that might be peculiar to the US political discourse.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#672

Post by roenxi »

maxerickson wrote: post #271
roenxi wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this tack is sufficient to defend YouTube's policy. This is quite close to arguing that a sitting senator shouldn't have opinions on what government policy is meant to be achieving. Rand Paul is (1) elected (2) holds a medical license. YouTube is suspending him because (1) he is disagreeing with government policy and (2) they don't like his medical opinion. I think it is fair to say you are defending (1)…

YouTube doesn't have any responsibility (especially legal) to the public discourse. It's weird that people have decided that privately owned companies should be required to do things they don't want to do, in the name of freedom.

> YouTube doesn't have any responsibility (especially legal) to the public discourse.

Well, for starters I'd be the first to argue that YouTube shouldn't have any legal responsibility for the public discourse. But the opinion that matters on that topic is YouTube's, and they believe they _do_ have a responsibility for the public discourse. That is why they are engaging in this program of censorship.

What I'm arguing here is that their plan to police misinformation is impossible and, consequently, can't work. And that they are showing an outrageous political bias and anyone with even a slight right-lean of opinion should get out now and find a different platform. Here today we see another example where it isn't working well, as YouTube starts clamping down on what are politically mainstream.

This isn't Alex Jones, this isn't Trump. This is now a doctor offering an opinion on medical practice that isn't his exact speciality. YouTube can't be consistently right on this stuff and they are throwing their weight around politically.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#673

Post by rayiner »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #269
rayiner wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not “misinformation.” It’s a perfectly legitimate argument against ineffective government mandates. In a cost-benefit balancing framework, it points out that the benefits will be much less than expected.

It's misinformation because of the implication it carries. The vaccines are 95% effective, yet someone who has not yet seen the studies showing their 95% efficacy would be told "The vaccine won't stop you from getting COVID" will understand the statement as meaning that they're worthless. It is absolutely misinformation, and no playing coy and claiming "But it's only 95%, not 100%, so the statement is still true!" is…

Except cloth masks are total shit and vaccines aren’t. I’ve been yelling at people to wear an N-95 for months. “Mask mandates aren’t worth it because people just wear shit Etsy masks” is a completely fair point.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#674

Post by belorn »

slownews45 wrote: post #338
belorn wrote: post #316

In a diving medical video a few months ago, a diving doctor when through the different mask and what they did and what they protected against. It did not get removed or censored by Youtube, through maybe it went under detection. Surgical masks do not prevent infection to the person who wears it. They prevent spread by catching droplets so they don't spread to others. They do not filter the air you breathe, but it red…

I wear an N95 with valve, very comfortable, plenty of protection I think for user. And works in a self interested context. In cases where masks required I put a surgical over it - also still very wearable. Part of the mask rejection has been comfort. Other countries did better jobs here KN94 etc with three flaps. I'm not sure medical does nothing for wearer. I've warn a very tight fitting medical mask - I think it wo…

There are air simulations that demonstrate how surgical masks work. They draw air in from the top and bottom when you take a breath and not through the layer of cloth.

Large air droplets have a harder time physically to go up and down inside the mask, through some emissions do also leak through the same place where air goes in. This basically becomes the leak rate.

As a thought experiment, imagine having a crash test dummy head wearing a surgical masks. In the mouth you put CO2 smoke. The smoke is made from fine particular that you can physical feel as being wet and cold. What will happen? The smoke will escape from the bottom and top of the mask, with very little "clean" air coming out through the front. Do the same experiment but have a squirt gun shooting a few small burst of solid liquid. The solid liquid will mostly get stuck in the cloth until it is fully saturated.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#675

Post by raxxorrax »

sp332 wrote: post #325
iammisc wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you cross reference and double check if only one side is presented and the internet is the main means by which one double checks? This is the conundrum I haven't figured out.

"The internet"? It's just YouTube. He's a senator, he has one of the biggest and most un-cancelable platforms in the world.

That doesn't justify selectively banning him at all. We could agree if we ban everyone with a political mandate perhaps. Fair and square.

Wouldn't support it intrinsically, but at least we could rid of these weasel excuses for why such measures are allegedly justified.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#676

Post by raxxorrax »

cvwright wrote: post #30
corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

My wife and I were looking into traveling from the US to Europe this summer, if the borders had opened up earlier. At the time, Germany was not allowing cloth masks on public transport. N95, surgical masks, or stay home. So here we have a sitting US senator being censored for agreeing with the German health authorities. WTF?!?

In practice people still use cloth masks and nobody checks this. Doesn't excuse the censorship at all.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#677

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #667
kgarten wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, how do you explain the non existing flue season (last autumn ) and the low incidences in Japan? We got higher rates during the Olympic. I live in Tokyo, Japan and visit US/Europe often. The only significant difference I see is the willingness to wear masks. And there's way less space here (packed subways etc.)

Well, any rational conversation about Japan has to start with the observation that cases are at an all-time high right now: https://www.asahi.com/topics/word/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8... I don't think changing rates of masking can explain that change. > Anecdotal, how do you explain the non existing flue season (last autumn ) and the low incidences in Japan? We got higher rates during the Olympic. I haven't seen any…

... the increase in incidences are coinciding with early travel and reducing the state of emergency related to the olympic. I work at a place that housed one of the teams, and the incidence increased around 1-2 weeks after some people arrived.

NHK made a lot of efforts like the one bellow: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1247/

Check the video,I would say masks help. It's basic physics ...

it's similar to the seat belt and car discussion. It's debatable how much they help (and they might have increased the number of accidents initially), yet they help. Statistics is hard.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#678

Post by kgarten »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #440
merpnderp wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying cloth masks are effective in the context of (K)N95 masks is even worse misinformation. Even the CDC's website on masks points out you should really be using (K)N95's, and that cloth masks are completely ineffective when wet, which they get after 15 minutes or so of breathing through them. The science on cloth masks says they work, but only shortly and just barely. Rand Paul is closer to the truth by saying the…

Cloth masks might not keep you safe. They do, however, improve safety for those around you. Anything that reduces droplet velocity and interferes with aerosol disperson is by definition better than nothing.

Don't understand the downvotes ...

basic science: "Anything that reduces droplet velocity and interferes with aerosol dispersion is by definition better than nothing." here are some supercomputer simulations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAvO_QdO9eM

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#679

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #667
kgarten wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, how do you explain the non existing flue season (last autumn ) and the low incidences in Japan? We got higher rates during the Olympic. I live in Tokyo, Japan and visit US/Europe often. The only significant difference I see is the willingness to wear masks. And there's way less space here (packed subways etc.)

Well, any rational conversation about Japan has to start with the observation that cases are at an all-time high right now: https://www.asahi.com/topics/word/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8... I don't think changing rates of masking can explain that change. > Anecdotal, how do you explain the non existing flue season (last autumn ) and the low incidences in Japan? We got higher rates during the Olympic. I haven't seen any…

anything that interfere with droplet dispersion is better than nothing ... no? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOwMsCc6NA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAvO_QdO9eM

Seems basic to me ... If the droplets from me don't reach to the first person in the cinema I cannot infect them.

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