Thunderbird 91.0 • Hacker News Board

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#211

Post by paulryanrogers » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #152

getlawgdon wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have meaning and power. How they are used literally changes the discourse. Your participation in this discussion is proof that the example under consideration has impact well beyond "playing with words."

yes words have meaning and the present change is wrong because it fails to understand the actual meaning of master.

Different people can interpret words differently. Replacing 'master' is a very low cost change which, IMO, can improve understanding of what is described. (Like main or root branch or vault password.)

So why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage when it doesn't even work that well in Thunderbird?

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#212

Post by jagger27 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

annexrichmond wrote: post #31

robert_foss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think language matters, and de-normalizing language with a root in slavery is a good idea.

the usage of master in "Master Password" is an adjective; seems like pretty a weak connection to the noun "Master" in the context of slavery

Technically it's a noun adjunct (also called attributive noun or qualifying noun).

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#213

Post by paulryanrogers » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

mdp2021 wrote: post #191

brnt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, and I agree. However, languages live and the people of the USA are an important determinant of where the English language is headed. They have a particular history involving this word, and that history has not been fully reckoned with. It makes sense that the same word, although in other contexts with a slightly different meaning, would be redefined or removed this way, in order to deal with that histo…

I am not sure if I will be able to convey the point as well as I wish, but: don't you think this way the enemy wins a battle ? Terrorists attempt bending politics through terrorizing: if one is terrorized, is that one not playing their game? We greet in some sensible way, say, and somebody comes and promotes the greeting as now meaning "short people should stick to accounting": that somebody should not be nobilitated…

If we accept that language is a cultural battlefield, then is this really a hill worth dieing on?

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#214

Post by jagger27 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

mastazi wrote: post #209

Is it actually out yet? If I attempt downloading from Thunderbird.net, I get 78.13.0, the only way to get 91 is if I select Beta channel.

It's on their FTP server, but I'm seeing the same thing.

https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/91.0/

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#215

Post by jffry » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

hosteur wrote: post #185

yakubin wrote: post #182

> Thunderbird now operates in multi-process (e10s) mode by default What does e10s mean here? UPDATE: I've found an explanation[1]: > In Mozilla documentation "Electrolysis" is often shorted as "e10s". What a silly scheme. [1]: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis >

What benefits are there with e10s in a mail client?

Two I can think of:

- Performance. Rendering emails, especially big HTML emails, in a separate process means that rendering can be offloaded to a different CPU core and that can help keep the main Thunderbird UI more responsive

- Security. If HTML email rendering is in its own process it reduces the blast radius of any exploits in the web sandbox. I also vaguely recall from Firefox's work that there might be additional OS-level security restrictions that can be applied on a per-process basis, which you might want for web rendering but can't have for other parts of the email client.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#216

Post by wayneftw » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #211

ekianjo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes words have meaning and the present change is wrong because it fails to understand the actual meaning of master.

Different people can interpret words differently. Replacing 'master' is a very low cost change which, IMO, can improve understanding of what is described. (Like main or root branch or vault password.) So why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage when it doesn't even work that well in Thunderbird?

> ...why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage...

Clinging? We're all just talking here and we don't have any authority over this software. Are we allowed to have differing opinions about what already took place? I think so.

Personally, my opinion is that I laugh at these people for their empty virtue signaling that really doesn't help understanding here in this case. We don't have to be clinging in order to discuss how idiotic we think things are.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#217

Post by ajsnigrutin » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #211

ekianjo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes words have meaning and the present change is wrong because it fails to understand the actual meaning of master.

Different people can interpret words differently. Replacing 'master' is a very low cost change which, IMO, can improve understanding of what is described. (Like main or root branch or vault password.) So why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage when it doesn't even work that well in Thunderbird?

But the word "master" means a lot in tech. This is like someone changing the word "save" to "store", after many years of use in tech, and everyone knowing the implied meaning, but some minority of users are complaining that "jesus saves, data is stored".

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#218

Post by the__alchemist » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

I really want to like Thunderbird, but... I can't do it. Mess of a UI, no clear way to do plain-text emails, and often won't open attachment sent from (enterprise) Outlook.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#219

Post by skeeter2020 » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

getlawgdon wrote: post #150

ekianjo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect employees want their work to make them feel good in terms of alignment with their bedrock principles. if it makes you feel good to play with words I am not sure if thats a good energy expenditure for your activism. it feels like a cheap way to value signal instead of doing something actually meaningful.

Words have meaning and power. How they are used literally changes the discourse. Your participation in this discussion is proof that the example under consideration has impact well beyond "playing with words."

>> your participation in this discussion...

Which is also just a lot of empty words that make you feel good about the fundamental change you're helping sweep over the world.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#220

Post by jcranmer » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

shakna wrote: post #145

anticodon wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've checked again. Only one letter was corrupt and only Subject line was corrupt. I've chosen to fix folder index from folder properties, and voila! The message was fixed. It wasn't an overwritten message or IMAP bug, it was some corruption of the Thunderbird folder index.

That index is originally created by your IMAP provider - they sent the wrong set of IDs (usually because of a race condition). When you run a fix, Thunderbird checks to see if the provider screwed anything up. It was an IMAP bug.

Not true. The "folder index" being referred to in Thunderbird is the local .msf database which is constructed by Thunderbird to provide its own local information about messages in the folder. Repairing it means throwing away all the local data and requerying it from the IMAP server (or in the case of a local folder, reparsing the mbox file).

The corruption bug likely lay with Thunderbird and not the IMAP server.