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Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

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Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#111
post #69

The level of IP related discourse on HN is reminiscent of talking politics with people who spend all their time listening to talk radio. I mean of course Ronald Reagan singlehandedly killed communism and minorities caused the housing crisis but did you know that the entire patent and copyright system could be removed tomorrow and everything would be just hunky dory? Fact: way too many obvious or stupid patents are gr…

"the solution is to properly staff and fund the USPTO" This is categorically impossible for software patents. We will never have enough patent examiners with the necessary expertise much less time to make valid decisions on software patent applications. Look at the backlog. Any one on this board who designs software solutions and has ever read a patent knows this is true. Thus it doesn't matter whether you like the i…

Thanks for stating your contested opinion/conclusion as categorically fact that we all know as true, period.

Your argument basically amounts to "well the dog pooped on the carpet, that's what dogs do, what can we do it about it except get rid of the dog?"

Real world: people respond to incentives.

(1) Currently the patent troll model is heavily incentivized.

(2) Currently, there's a huge incentive to file obvious and frivolous patent applications.

(3) Currently the USPTO is underfunded.

Obvious solutions...

(1) Disincentivize the patent troll model. You can do this by limiting the amount they can recoup from litigation or by increasing their costs. I'm suggesting both.

(2) Disincentivize obvious and frivolous patent applications. Obvious solutions are to stop approving these and to have some additional penalties for failed applications (esp. repeat offenders). I'd suggest both.

(3) Increase funding to the USPTO. You could do this with money from income taxes and the general budget (laff) but I'm suggesting using the highly lucrative patents themselves to finance the office.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#112
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress is part of the problem. Even if they fixed patents, they would just screw something else up. The checks and balances of the US government aren't working. We need a free market of governments, so that if we don't like one, we just switch to a better one. Competition would provide the check and balance, like it does for everything else. This isn't possible at present because it is impractical or impossible for…

Remember that government is the monopoly of the application of force. When you have a competitive market in force...

...you have the world as it is. You can already move to change governments, only now you have to move farther than you used to. Notice how most of the oppression in the US is from the federal government, not state or municipal ones. We are predisposed to support government as a holdover from our instincts about tribal politics, but tribes never got anywhere near as big as 1/4 billion people. That immense power abuses result should surprise no one.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#113
post #108
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, you didn't. Android is not "just a clone" but it's clear that they decided to aggressively clone the iphone's features. If you don't think that's obvious, you missed what Android looked like 6 months before the iphone debut and 6 months after. Now whether those features are protectable as IP or not is another matter but if they are it's no surprise that Apple would want to enforce such protections.

So... what's your point, really? What's wrong with taking a successful product, and making a similar product to compete with it? Android may have quickly morphed into something more iPhone-like in the wake of the initial iPhone launch, but why is that seen as "cheating"? Why is "clone" a bad word? I think it's a great word. You don't like Apple's walled-garden approach? Fine, now you have competition, alternatives, a…

"What's wrong with taking a successful product, and making a similar product to compete with it?"

Zero. I'm very thankful that Android exists and webOS and WP7, competition is good.

"But in this case, it just amounts to an attempt at stifling competition."

I think it's a bit myopic to look at only this. You have to ask yourself the very important question of whether the iphone would even exist to be copied if there were no protections to keep people from copying too closely. If not, then there's a good argument that we'd all be much worse off.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#114
post #105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly not I. But there is a line somewhere between "biased reporting" and "juvenile pandering" that I keep seeing sites prance back and forth over, perennially indecisive about whether they want to be real grown-up news or not, to the detriment of the whole enterprise.

Agreed, to a certain extent, though I'm not sure that I'd go so far as to call it juvenile. All news outlets have an agenda. Some try harder than others to keep that agenda out of their headlines. Others... don't. I'm not saying it's great, but it's to be expected, I think. While I wouldn't really call HTC an "underdog" in the normal sense of the term, painting them as such in a fight against Apple isn't totally off-…

Fair enough, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that painting Steve Jobs as shooting lightning from his fingertips is a little on the juvenile side.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#115

Wouldn't creating a patent alliance render the evils of this system ineffective? Members of the alliance would work together to acquire patents, and these patents will be used as patent lawsuit deterrents. Any non-member company who sues a member of the alliance will have to face a dozen lawsuits from other alliance members. (Alliance members should sign a legal agreement not to sue other members on patent-based issu…

That sounds kind of like the [Open Invention Network]( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network ).

That sounds a lot like Intellectual Ventures too, not sure if it's intended :)

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#116
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Aggressively clone as in...? " As in completely overhauled the device from a blackberry knock off to an iphone knock off: http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-l... "Hate to break it to you, but iOS wasn't the first to do any of those" I'm not making any claim that (1) iOS was first for any of those or that (2) whatever claims Apple is making are protectable or not or (3) whether google violates…

Misleading image is misleading. This is what the first Android phone looked like: http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2008/10/androi... Plenty of handsets had full touch-screens before the iPhone came out. The only difference being that the iPhone decided to ditch any hardware keyboard option. Oh wait, what's that on the knockoff? A hardware keyboard option, and almost every other button from the pre-releas…

"Only they decided to go and start suing everyone left and right."

The idea that Apple was the first person to sue anyone in mobile is laughable.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9ucqq8ZMD1qa34geo1_r3_500...

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#117

It's pretty undeniable that the whole patents thing is now one giant clusterfuck. The problem is, as technology advances, previously "genius" ideas become trivial due to more people being able to solve problems. There was a time in history when things such as spoons were considered an amazing idea, but how utterly fucked would humanity's development have been if stone-age people allowed themselves to be crippled by g…

It's not just that technology advances; patents eventually expire. The problem is that the electronics industry advances an order of magnitude faster. A patent in the farm-tractor industry takes two years to start making money and is still non-obvious 25 years later. A patent in the handheld electronics or algorithms industry takes two weeks to start making money and can be obsolete 25 months later. It's still a giant clusterfuck, but it's close enough that it only needs a major reform.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#118
Well isn't this a pickle, according to ars the two patents that the judge have been found infridged have been ruled invalid...

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/07/itc-judge-says-mac...

... [Litigating Apple] noted that on the very same day that an ALJ ruled that Apple infringed two of S3's patents, the USPTO made initial determinations that the relevant claims of the two remaining patents are also invalid due to prior art. Apple can ask the ITC to review the infringement decision in light of the USPTO's invalidation of those patent claims as ipso facto an invalid patent claim cannot be infringed. ...

ars's source: http://www.litigatingapple.com/blog/2011/7/24/why-htcs-court...

And the soap opera continues.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#119
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse? That is exactly what we have right now!

They are still suing each other. There could be a system where there is a cartel that only sues the small ones.

That's already happening. Google, MS, Apple, IBM, Intel, AMD/ATI, nVidia, AT&T and a few others already have cross-licensing deals essentially between everyone and everyone. It's just that HTC and Samsung are not part of _this_ cartel.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#120
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse? That is exactly what we have right now!

They are still suing each other. There could be a system where there is a cartel that only sues the small ones.

That is the current system's default mode of operation. What do you think MPEG LA is?
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