Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#51

Post by erydo » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:44 PM UTC

jxcole wrote: post #47

Taft wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the increasingly vocal outcry of rampant patent abuse, it's also possible that tech giants begin publicly stating their position towards US patent law: it needn't exist (or one of the many alternatives that have been proposed). If the market can metabolize that, patent law reform isn't far away.

I would agree except that a bunch of companies just bought some patents for $4.5 billion. If patents become ineffective, the value of that purchase is $0. Very few companies are going to look on this as a positive thing.

They already purchased those patents, though. It's kind of a sunk cost. They wouldn't be losing $4.5 billion cash if patents became worthless, they'd be losing ammunition for a type of fight that they wouldn't have to deal with anymore.

That's like saying, "We can't stop fighting this war, then all our guns would be worthless."

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#52

Post by podperson » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:48 PM UTC

nkassis wrote: post #48

HTC has some leverage but I have a feeling, after seeing OS 10.7, that Apple cares less about the Mac then their iOS devices. Would they sacrifice the Macs for the chance to block Android?

More importantly, the same problem applies to anything not using nVidia GPUs, which is most low-end desktop PCs (Intel integrated GPUs) and a lot of high-end desktop PCs (anything with AMD).

So now we can't have a PC with the best GPU and CPU because Intel and nVidia are suing each other over IP, and we can't have a cheap PC because Intel is infringing on S3 patents, and we can't even give up and get a top-of-the-line AMD/ATI CPU.

Argh.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#53

Post by kenjackson » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:52 PM UTC

Given this is a HW and SW patent, and my superficial reading leads me to believe that this may infringe on HW -- this isn't your typical SW patent issue. It's HW too. Are people ready to say that HW patents, such as those held by Intel and ARM, should also go bye-bye?

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#54

Post by Pewpewarrows » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:53 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #50

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have noted, it's because Apple decided to get their hands dirty first claiming intellectual property with ridiculously broad patents. In that sense HTC is being perceived as defending itself to the bully on the playground by throwing back punches.

First, HTC didn't even have these patents until recently. Second, Android clearly went with a strategy of cloning the iPhone, of course Apple struck first. Is Apple the bad guy for also wanting to close the fake Apple stores in China? The question isn't who struck first, the question is whether each parties patents are valid or not and whether they are infringed or not. Defending poor journalism doesn't get us closer…

If you think that Android devices are just clones of the iPhone, and that it gives Apple just cause to strike first, I'm not even going to bother writing a real response.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#55

Post by buddylw » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:55 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #49

buddylw wrote: post #33

Maybe we can get to the "mutually assured destruction" phase of patents where everyone has so many ridiculous patents that any lawsuit is sure to ruin everyone? Of course, that doesn't stop patent trolls (terrorist rent seekers) with no skin in the game, but at least this drama would end.

There's an idea, start calling patent trolls "patent terrorism" to leverage the current climate of fear for our own purposes.

I think the Patriot Act could actually help us here.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#56

Post by willyt » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:58 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #37

GHFigs wrote: post #31

It's amusing that when there is a ruling in HTC's favor the headline is: "Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents"...but when there was a ruling in Apple's favor it was: "Apple's Plot to Kill Top Android Maker HTC Nears Fruition With Win" The latter being illustrated with a picture of Steve Jobs as the Emperor from Star Wars. Classy.

Perhaps because it's defensive? If HTC struck first and tried to kill the iPhone, I'd wager the headlines would have been reversed.

But it's not defensive if they acted in bad faith to begin with. The billboard adds for htc phones looked like ad's for iPhones until you got close enough to read the copy. The implication being 'an iPhone, but cheaper'. I have no problem with someone coming up with something better, but I was surprised that they were able to get away with something so clearly mimicking the look and feel of an iPhone.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#57

Post by Steko » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 5:06 PM UTC

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #54

Steko wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, HTC didn't even have these patents until recently. Second, Android clearly went with a strategy of cloning the iPhone, of course Apple struck first. Is Apple the bad guy for also wanting to close the fake Apple stores in China? The question isn't who struck first, the question is whether each parties patents are valid or not and whether they are infringed or not. Defending poor journalism doesn't get us closer…

If you think that Android devices are just clones of the iPhone, and that it gives Apple just cause to strike first, I'm not even going to bother writing a real response.

Trust me, you didn't.

Android is not "just a clone" but it's clear that they decided to aggressively clone the iphone's features. If you don't think that's obvious, you missed what Android looked like 6 months before the iphone debut and 6 months after.

Now whether those features are protectable as IP or not is another matter but if they are it's no surprise that Apple would want to enforce such protections.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#58

Post by wanderful » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 5:07 PM UTC

erydo wrote: post #51

jxcole wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree except that a bunch of companies just bought some patents for $4.5 billion. If patents become ineffective, the value of that purchase is $0. Very few companies are going to look on this as a positive thing.

They already purchased those patents, though. It's kind of a sunk cost. They wouldn't be losing $4.5 billion cash if patents became worthless, they'd be losing ammunition for a type of fight that they wouldn't have to deal with anymore. That's like saying, "We can't stop fighting this war, then all our guns would be worthless."

It's very much like saying that, which doesn't mean it's not persuasive reasoning. It may not be ultimately rational reasoning, but it appeals to many people. That's why it's called the sunk cost fallacy. :)

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#59

Post by randallsquared » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 5:13 PM UTC

erydo wrote: post #51

jxcole wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree except that a bunch of companies just bought some patents for $4.5 billion. If patents become ineffective, the value of that purchase is $0. Very few companies are going to look on this as a positive thing.

They already purchased those patents, though. It's kind of a sunk cost. They wouldn't be losing $4.5 billion cash if patents became worthless, they'd be losing ammunition for a type of fight that they wouldn't have to deal with anymore. That's like saying, "We can't stop fighting this war, then all our guns would be worthless."

That seems like a very common thing for people to say just after buying 4.5 billion USD worth of weapons.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#60

Post by Pooter » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

buddylw wrote: post #33

Maybe we can get to the "mutually assured destruction" phase of patents where everyone has so many ridiculous patents that any lawsuit is sure to ruin everyone? Of course, that doesn't stop patent trolls (terrorist rent seekers) with no skin in the game, but at least this drama would end.

> but at least this drama would end.

And anyone without a big enough arsenal of patents to protect themselves via MAD wouldn't be able to produce any products.

The system needs an overhaul, if not outright scrapping, at least as regards software patents.