Australia is becoming a surveillance state • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#181

Post by h0l0cube » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #112

h0l0cube wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The run ended in europe after 1970, it ended in the US after 1990 and it will end in Autralia. I wouldn't be so sure that they'll ever need to abandon their crutch of geological resources. There's nothing particularly industrious or forward-looking about Australia, precisely because they can dig up dirt and sell it at a premium.

The world is complex. Climate change, pollution, water shortage, demographic fluctuation, power grabbing, economical crisis, etc. So many things can happen and change the rules of the game entirely. Not to mention all what we don't know. The book anti-fragile have a very good bit on that. The point is everything moves, nothing stays the same, good and bad runs go hand in hand. But imagine if a dictator of the last ce…

Yeah, I really think that having diverse and plentiful raw materials on mostly unused land is always going to be valuable. Off-earth mining is where disruption will eventually come from, but that's going to take a long while yet to become competitive with on-earth mining.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#182

Post by xyzzy123 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

throwawaylinux wrote: post #164

thisone22 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'So you have sun, good food, plenty of money and little immigration.' Australia has one of the highest rates of inbound immigration in the world. Number 2 in the OECD actually, right after Luxembourg. And I, like the overwhelming majority of Australians, consider high immigration intakes to be a good thing. Check your sources. [1] https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/migratio... [2] https://data.oecd.o…

Skilled immigration is neocolonialism. I truly can't believe how many (supposedly enlightened) people I've had try to tell me with a straight face how wonderful it is to have all these doctors/engineers/etc coming to their country, and how great it is for their economy and healthcare system etc. Like, you don't think all the people in India or The Philippines or Chad need doctors or economic advancement?? It's just i…

Is it neocolonialism, or is it more like letting people vote with their feet? In a perfect world, we'd all be able to choose where we live.

Most of the people I talk to in Australia are more concerned about all the people that DON'T get let in.

Another lens is that countries are in the business of providing defence, governance, economic opportunity and lifestyle services. Immigrants are customers.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#183

Post by partomniscient » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

scoopertrooper wrote: post #58

unixhero wrote: post #15

It already has been for a long time. Freedom and liberty are practiced differently in Australia.

I think we just have a lot of faith in our institutions. We just can't believe the state would ever be used as a weapon against us because we've never experienced large scale civil upheaval or suffered under periods of dictatorship. People rattling on about slippery slopes and abstract notions of liberty just seem a bit batty to most Australians. We have a free media, our elections are free and fair, we have routine…

>We have a free media

Err, we have a media which is in a symbiotic relationship with the government.

I would not consider this free.

There are few genuine journalists out there looking for the truth and they have little impact on the masses.

The one that did (Assange) has a trial going on as I type this.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#184

Post by throwawaylinux » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

xyzzy123 wrote: post #182

throwawaylinux wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skilled immigration is neocolonialism. I truly can't believe how many (supposedly enlightened) people I've had try to tell me with a straight face how wonderful it is to have all these doctors/engineers/etc coming to their country, and how great it is for their economy and healthcare system etc. Like, you don't think all the people in India or The Philippines or Chad need doctors or economic advancement?? It's just i…

Is it neocolonialism, or is it more like letting people vote with their feet? In a perfect world, we'd all be able to choose where we live. Most of the people I talk to in Australia are more concerned about all the people that DON'T get let in. Another lens is that countries are in the business of providing defence, governance, economic opportunity and lifestyle services. Immigrants are customers.

Yes, yes it is neocolonialism. And it's easy to justify by saying "in a perfect world", but we don't live in a perfect world do we so that logic is just completely flawed. "In a perfect world we would do X" does not mean that doing X in the imperfect world we live in results in a better world.

It is neocolonialism because it is extracting the most valuable and profitable resources of less well off countries for your own benefit. Sure they can't compete with the massive incentives offered by the uber wealthy countries. Probably because those wealthy countries have been exploiting their resources including human capital in the past which keeps them poor and dependent.

But they should be thankful that their children get to sew shoes for us for a few cents a day.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#185

Post by claudiawerner » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

RileyJames wrote: post #8

Since 2015 and the meta data laws it’s no wonder things have continued to get worse. There was practically no opposition to the meta data laws. No popular resistance. No protests. It’s a non-issue for the public or political class. The extent to which non-tech people in my social circles care is to switch to signal. Not that they’ve stopped using the other tools. There seems to be a “what else can we do” attitude. Un…

It's not just that - I think there's a link (but I'm not sure how best to describe it) between the policies enacted in many commonwealth countries and a fundamental disrespect for privacy and freedom of expression; take the fact that Australia, the UK, Canada, and New Zealand all banned cartoon porn that appears to depict fictional minors (the famous "Simpsons porn" case in Australia), and even prohibit its mere possession in a private residence - all while admitting there is zero scientific justification for those laws, and relying only on the words of charity representatives, and in the England, with MPs justifying the ban by saying that only "perverts" would be against such a law.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#186

Post by marcusverus » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

hestefisk wrote: post #159

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

I think this is nicely said. I grew up in a Western European country where I was used to most people caring about big societal issues such as health, environment, civil rights and privacy. In most European countries there is real competition between newspapers and an, at least in some places, a tradition of democratic participation. Meanwhile, in Australia, the “free press” is effectively owned by Rupert Murdoch, the…

> the government needs to make voting for federal elections compulsory in order to get people to take a stance / have an opinion (yes, you will get a fine if you don’t vote!)

This seems like such a bad idea. Ideally, the democratic process taps ‘the wisdom of crowds’ and allows a society to make reasonable decisions. But all human beings are not capable of contributing to good decision making. Roughly the 15% of people have IQs below 85, making them effectively mentally retarded. And beyond that, a huge number of people are grossly uninformed about contemporary political issues, history, science, etc. The best contribution that some folks can make to the democratic process is not participating in the democratic process.

Moreover, if you force the unintelligent and uninformed to vote, you’re empowering the media to run the country. When someone’s politics are uninformed by firmly held principals and a solid understanding of history and current events, they will be more susceptible to be steered by biased media.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#187

Post by partomniscient » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

lethologica wrote: post #71

scoopertrooper wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we just have a lot of faith in our institutions. We just can't believe the state would ever be used as a weapon against us because we've never experienced large scale civil upheaval or suffered under periods of dictatorship. People rattling on about slippery slopes and abstract notions of liberty just seem a bit batty to most Australians. We have a free media, our elections are free and fair, we have routine…

I’m seeing so many negative comments about Australia and yet this is the Australia that I know and love deeply. I wonder what’s causing the stark differences in view.

The average Australian in the past 'rode the sheeps back'.

The average Australian now has the wool over their eyes and is either ignorant of it or okay with it.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#188

Post by dharmach » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #78

lethologica wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what are we Aussies missing out on then?

You don't because you are living in a period where everything is wonderul for Australia. You know what they say: everybody is a genius in a bull market. So you have sun, good food, plenty of money and little immigration. Life is good (if you are not living in the desert naked). Unfortunatly, there is nowhere in the world where things stay nice and easy. The run ended in europe after 1970, it ended in the US after 199…

>>Now, when things are getting hard, having weak democratic institutions, no political awareness and corporate medling is going to hit hard.

Many living in democracies will find this true for their country.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#189

Post by partomniscient » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

brokenmachine wrote: post #175

lethologica wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m seeing so many negative comments about Australia and yet this is the Australia that I know and love deeply. I wonder what’s causing the stark differences in view.

I love Australia, but the way we're headed is not the Australia that I love.

It's weird but to me looking back with your "Australia I love" comment, it seems Bob Hawke was the last true Australian Prime Minister.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#190

Post by shell0x » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:20 PM UTC

tasogare wrote: post #42

shell0x wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia basically sold everything to China and gave the Darwin harbor away on a lease. The entire economy relies on selling real estate to rich foreign investors, international students, and mining. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/why-did-northern-terr... Australia thinks it can control China, but without the influx of Chinese money the place is finished IMO. When I landed at Sydney Airport in 2020, there we…

Capital plus immigration. I've been in WA a decade ago and I was surprised by the number of ethnic Chinese people everywhere. One day China will just have to push a button to turn the country into one of its province, without any need for war.

You are not far off. China used Chinese students in Australia as a pawn in geopolitics to support the regime.

The previous generation of ethnic Chinese is better integrated, but the new generation is very patriotic and loyal to the communist party.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/hundreds-gather-in-sydney-for-po...

The West always hoped China would turn into a democracy, but that turned out to be an illusion. As long as maximising profits regardless of the consequences is a priority, this will continue.

It's often forgotten that China is and has always been playing the long game where in the West policies can change after the next election.