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Australia is becoming a surveillance state

ia.acs.org.au

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Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#111

Post by MisterTea »

thisone22 wrote: post #84
retsibsi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you flesh this out more? I'm not asking for academic rigour, but at the moment it's hard to engage because your critique is so sweeping and unspecific.

It's just bog standard Australian cultural cringe. I've spent a good chunk of my adulthood living in various countries in Europe, and Australia. Europhilic nonsense such as in the GP betray their almost total lack of understanding as to the actual state of affairs in European countries. Corruption is everywhere. Corporate interests influence policy.. everywhere. Moronic government decisions abound.. literally everywh…

As an American I have heard many people romanticize Europe and compared it favorably to the USA in terms of politics, social progression, etc. Rose colored glasses, grass is always greener and all that.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#112

Post by BiteCode_dev »

h0l0cube wrote: post #92
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't because you are living in a period where everything is wonderul for Australia. You know what they say: everybody is a genius in a bull market. So you have sun, good food, plenty of money and little immigration. Life is good (if you are not living in the desert naked). Unfortunatly, there is nowhere in the world where things stay nice and easy. The run ended in europe after 1970, it ended in the US after 199…

> The run ended in europe after 1970, it ended in the US after 1990 and it will end in Autralia. I wouldn't be so sure that they'll ever need to abandon their crutch of geological resources. There's nothing particularly industrious or forward-looking about Australia, precisely because they can dig up dirt and sell it at a premium.

The world is complex. Climate change, pollution, water shortage, demographic fluctuation, power grabbing, economical crisis, etc. So many things can happen and change the rules of the game entirely. Not to mention all what we don't know.

The book anti-fragile have a very good bit on that.

The point is everything moves, nothing stays the same, good and bad runs go hand in hand.

But imagine if a dictator of the last century had access to Facebook social graph...

You gotta be careful when it's good, to not have it too bad when it's getting bad later

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#113

Post by thisone22 »

MisterTea wrote: post #111
thisone22 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just bog standard Australian cultural cringe. I've spent a good chunk of my adulthood living in various countries in Europe, and Australia. Europhilic nonsense such as in the GP betray their almost total lack of understanding as to the actual state of affairs in European countries. Corruption is everywhere. Corporate interests influence policy.. everywhere. Moronic government decisions abound.. literally everywh…

As an American I have heard many people romanticize Europe and compared it favorably to the USA in terms of politics, social progression, etc. Rose colored glasses, grass is always greener and all that.

Yep, exactly like this.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#114

Post by randomhodler84 »

Australian tech workers, get out get out get out get out…

I can’t stress this enough. The Australian tech industry is a failing joke. You are being grossly underpaid. The country _is_ an authoritarian surveillance state and has been for years and years. The frog boiled and died years ago. Peace out, and find somewhere that will treat you well.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#115

Post by monkeycantype »

noxer wrote: post #86
L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

Don't forget they disarmed the people. If some people ever start to care they wont have the boomstick power. They maybe be upside down but authoritarian regimes work the same, secure the monopoly on force by removing arms is a key step for any authoritarian gov.

You’re missing an essential detail, how Australians view the government, Australians don’t believe that the the government is sufficiently competent to be tyrannical, except in small local cases against the powerless

edit: we don't believe those in government with the inclination towards tyranny are sufficiently competent. There are individuals, in government in Australia, in the same house even if they're are not quite at the centre of power, who are good admirable competent people. And there are those whose fantasies bend towards tyranny. They are not the same people. And then there is the great morass along for the ride and the cushy pension.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#116

Post by raxxorrax »

thisone22 wrote: post #89
privacyking wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia is often used as a testing ground since it's part of five eyes and a) people there don't have many legally enshrined rights (no bill of rights) besides stuff like right to political expression and religion, and b) the population is complacent and won't kick up a fuss about the immoral crap the government enacts.

... this is such nonsense ... do you pay any attention at all to the politics of the US, Canada, NZ or the UK? Do you really think they're in a dark room coordinating their laws with Australian government, deciding who will go first?

Purely by result I don't think you couldn't make out a difference if they did that or not.

Easy to see that the war on terror dominated security policies for the last two decades in many countries, not only the five eyes. Officials build their image on that, being tough on X.

Problem is that there isn't any effective opposition because people are afraid of everything these days.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#117

Post by eightails »

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

Many of these criticisms can -- and indeed already have -- been extended to plenty of western democracies including the US.

Chomsky and many others have been warning that corporate and political interests are infringing on the (increasingly centralised) media and other institutions for several decades. Questions around the strength of democratic institutions are raised regularly, with the various Trump sagas being a prominent recent example. Australia has been the test-run (or the canary in the coalmine, depending on your view) for privacy-destroying legislation -- following the footsteps and wishes of the NSA, of course. Declines in public education and communication infrastructure, widespread political apathy? Join the club.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#118

Post by joshsyn »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #98
joshsyn wrote: post #11

hope to leave this country for good sooner or later. Lot of complicit people willing to trade-off freedom for false sense of security.

I'm going off grid first, and then hope to move overseas too. I can't stand how many rules there are now, just doesn't suit my personality type.

is there an online community to discuss specifically these things? Which countries do you have in mind?

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#119

Post by BiteCode_dev »

thisone22 wrote: post #109
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't because you are living in a period where everything is wonderul for Australia. You know what they say: everybody is a genius in a bull market. So you have sun, good food, plenty of money and little immigration. Life is good (if you are not living in the desert naked). Unfortunatly, there is nowhere in the world where things stay nice and easy. The run ended in europe after 1970, it ended in the US after 199…

'So you have sun, good food, plenty of money and little immigration.' Australia has one of the highest rates of inbound immigration in the world. Number 2 in the OECD actually, right after Luxembourg. And I, like the overwhelming majority of Australians, consider high immigration intakes to be a good thing. Check your sources. [1] https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/migratio... [2] https://data.oecd.o…

Australian have temporary immigration, becomming permanent is actually quite hard compared to europe where you can basically just walk in there.

Also, I consider it a chance to be able to go to school as well, it doesn't mean exams are easy.

Immigration is the same. It gives, and it takes.

Because australia is an island with a pretty good legal filter for immigrants, they get less social tensions.

Also because they have plenty of space and money, right now they can welcome immigrants way more easily.

And finally because immigration from asia is a good part of the immigration source, which also makes things easier culturally.

The situations is different in every part of the world.

Immigration is not a single variable universal phenomenom.

Today if you talk about the challenge that diversity can bring, you are labelled with pretty harshed words. But nothing is free.

Source: I've been an immigrant a lot.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#120

Post by thisone22 »

logicchains wrote: post #90
shric wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link 2 is a 404 for me. Hilariously, Australians protest about their rights by trying their best to extend lockdowns further [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/24/anti-...

Why is it hilarious? The whole point of human rights is they they don't just disappear whenever there's an emergency, otherwise the next dictator who comes along will just declare an emergency and violate everyone's rights, as has happened countless times in history. It's sad not funny that people protesting their rights being violated just leads to their rights being violated even more.

Ok, this is a spectrum.

How far along the spectrum does the emergency need to get to justify a lockdown?

For example

- The Black Plague which killed 30%~ of Europe. At what point would a lockdown be justified?

- Germany just invaded my northern border. Again. Am I allowed to force my residents to turn their lights off to avoid bombing?

Rights aren't universal, and no serious person argues this. There is always an emergency that's bad enough.

The question is 'what is bad enough' and this has no scientific answer. The answer is up to the government of the day, and the population who can decide whether to turf that government.

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