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Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

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Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#181

Post by kortilla »

caslon wrote: post #152
kortilla wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s not how the real world works. People go to the Walmart and deal with that misery because groceries for the week cost $100 instead of $200. People on a budget absolutely pay attention to the cost of gas.

That absolutely is how the real world works. I'm not well-off myself, I keep track of prices, and this recently happened in my own town.

No, you either didn’t read what I wrote or you haven’t been living on a budget. Poor people don’t waste more money on gas than they save by going to Walmart.

They go to Walmart because it’s significantly cheaper to do weekly shopping there than even other big retail grocery outlets, let lone little ones. My parents absolutely fucking hate going to Walmart but they go there weekly because it’s $50/week difference just for the two of them vs Kroger.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#182

Post by GavinMcG »

notJim wrote: post #113
GavinMcG wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived down the street from this site, I'm also skeptical. Tempe has some bike infrastructure, but the high temperatures four months of the year and the spread-out nature of the larger Phoenix metro makes a car a priority for most people, and cities (including Tempe and neighboring Mesa) design around that. There's a bike path to the west of this site that runs north-south but terminates after only a couple mil…

> [the climate/city layout] makes a car a priority for most people, and cities (including Tempe and neighboring Mesa) design around that This gets the cause and effect totally backwards. Phoenix and the surrounding cities are all designed for cars at the expense of bikability, transit and walkability, and people need cars because of that. There are lots of walkable cities in places with more uncomfortable climates th…

People now want cars because of the nature of the city. Something can be both a cause and an effect at different points in time. The general pattern is called a feedback loop.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#183

Post by ethanbond »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #122
ethanbond wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well… most towns/subdivisions with zealous planning suck. The best cities in the world appear to be very organically grown. Maybe this is an illusion?

Well Manhattan, for example—obviously at first it developed organically, but the upper part of the island was largely planned, with a strict grid system of streets and avenues and a large park in the center! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaIOfgz8FVY

But that’s a very good example. The older parts of the city (way downtown and West Village) feel way better than all the more gridded areas.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#185

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ethanbond wrote: post #183
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Manhattan, for example—obviously at first it developed organically, but the upper part of the island was largely planned, with a strict grid system of streets and avenues and a large park in the center! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaIOfgz8FVY

But that’s a very good example. The older parts of the city (way downtown and West Village) feel way better than all the more gridded areas.

...I mean, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that! I really like the grid, it’s one of the reasons I like living here. Makes it so easy to navigate.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#186

Post by jeffbee »

jedmeyers wrote: post #16
jeffbee wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I belong to three different community workshops: a membership-based wood shop, a motorcycle repair shop that offers both memberships and drop-in work, and an electronics shop for members. At each I enjoy access to far better tools than I ever had at home, especially the motorcycle shop where I would never have something like a crane, a parts washer, cylinder reamers, and tire changing machines. I feel like this model…

Membership-based shops and clubs seem to work much better than 'everyone can come' scheme. Even at Google the maker spaces require an intro class, and an approval from one of the managing members. And one can make a case that a googler is expected to be a more responsible person than a random member of the elite no-car community.

Having to get readability for the maker space is the most googly thing I can imagine.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#187

Post by ac29 »

dougmwne wrote: post #172
jerry1979 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I decided to take a look at Daybreak on google maps, but I'm having a hard time understanding how the layout is different than other developments. I do notice that the lane system looks nice as opposed to just having alleys. Is there other stuff you like?

It is utterly bizarre to read positive comments here then try to look at Daybreak on Google Maps. I see about 5 restaurants in a tiny town center, no convenience stores or grocery, just several square miles of small lot suburbs with dotted pools and tennis courts. Looks like the opposite of walkable to me. No biking infrastructure leading to that light rail station or evidence that anyone would walk anywhere for anyt…

There are tons of cul-de-sacs (pro-car, anti-pedestrian) and huge parking lots at the shopping centers. This looks really as bad as some of the worst of American suburbs (edit: as a pedestrian! maybe its nice enough to live in for other reasons).

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#188

Post by verall »

fy20 wrote: post #138
milkytron wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very similar situation here. Master planned community with meh build quality, but our neighborhood is designed to be transit oriented. We don't have a lot of amenities within the community, mostly just a bike trail, and a light rail stop. Hopefully some retail and a grocery store open up nearby soon, because about 500+ units are all being built within a quarter mile. And well over 1000+ within a half mile. The bike t…

> The odd thing is that nearly everyone in the community still drives everywhere, and some own multiple cars. Parking is a disaster and everyone complains about it, but these were all new builds and the buyers all should have known that parking would be limited. This sounds a lot like communities built during Soviet times. At the time the idea was everything you needed was in your community, and if you ever needed to…

In most American cities the bus schedules are like every 15-20 minutes and buses arrive at a near random distribution over that time. So even if traffic is so bad that driving is consistently 40 minutes, the bus-to-stop-to-bus trip is really anywhere from 40-80 minutes depending on your luck. I think people really value being able to estimate their commute and buses add a lot of variance.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#190

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

harikb wrote: post #135
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Manhattan, for example—obviously at first it developed organically, but the upper part of the island was largely planned, with a strict grid system of streets and avenues and a large park in the center! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaIOfgz8FVY

Planning works great for public utilities- roads, libraries, parks etc. The moment we cross that are have a planned bank, grocer, retail I think it falls apart. The grocery shop needs guarantee on revenue to be setup, and then they will slack off because they won’t need to compete or innovate. People will realize once the HOA bill runs in to several hundred dollars and have to deal with shitty services. In the real w…

Rather than national businesses that take the profit out, how about an accommodation for small business owners to live in the community as well? But not subsidize them so they actually have to be viable businesses.

In many cities, there are plenty of first floor shops with the proprietors living upstairs. It seems that collectively, they'd keep the planning and policies in favor of active and vibrant lifestyle, focus on keeping crime in check, promote community cohesion.

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