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Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

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Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#171

Post by [deleted] »

deltasixeight wrote: post #168
stemlord wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive seen several attempts at master planned neighborhoods with little town center type things with the idea that youd rarely have to leave, around South Florida growing up, and even lived in one for a few years. They all failed miserably. I feel like ones that succeed are just lucky. These communities can have basic predetermined guidelines to how growth can happen but the actual growth needs to happen organically. Y…

A master plan doesn't hurt, they could get it wrong but it's not that much worse than haphazard randomness. The good cities you see aren't good because of early planning. They're good because of constant vigilance to improve and maintain. Subway systems for example aren't usually part of the master plan of the city at inception but are the result of constant vigilance to improve. Meanwhile western US suburbia is the…

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Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#172

Post by dougmwne »

jerry1979 wrote: post #53
jrsdav wrote: post #18

I live in a master planned community (Daybreak, Utah), and while you can definitely scoff at the building quality (state of things everywhere right now, it's all done fast and with low quality materials), it's been fantastic, especially during the pandemic. The whole neighborhood is designed to be walkable, with parks, pools, trails, train stations, grocery stores and restaurants (added in the later phases, which are…

I decided to take a look at Daybreak on google maps, but I'm having a hard time understanding how the layout is different than other developments. I do notice that the lane system looks nice as opposed to just having alleys. Is there other stuff you like?

It is utterly bizarre to read positive comments here then try to look at Daybreak on Google Maps. I see about 5 restaurants in a tiny town center, no convenience stores or grocery, just several square miles of small lot suburbs with dotted pools and tennis courts. Looks like the opposite of walkable to me. No biking infrastructure leading to that light rail station or evidence that anyone would walk anywhere for anything. Human-scale urban planning must truly be a foreign concept to Americans.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#173

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

lstamour wrote: post #79

By the time I scrolled to the swimming pool render, I started to think that the photos weren’t very realistic. Then I realized why: everybody was white in the renders. There was a token person of colour here or there. But it was poorly added. The black guy at the swimming pool is in the back. And unlike everybody else, he forgot his swimwear… This is one of the first times I’ve seen “Corporate Memphis” illustrations…

Yeah, looks amateur. Typically you expect to see mixed white/Black couples, Muslim women (never men), a shortage of east-Asian people (usually women, presented as casual but desexualized professionals), rarely Indians (and never the Indian Family, marking a stark contrast to actual Desi ads), and everybody between 27 and 35 (the absence of children you're not supposed to think about, and old people might hold bad opinions).

Departures from this pattern are indeed noticeable.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#174

Post by stanski »

I kept reading this as "cat-free neighbourhood", multiple times too. Looked at the website but couldn't figure out what part of all the nice features was thanks to the community being cat-free. Were the BBQs and hammocks better if there is no cats anywhere?

There is a cat in one of the images near the top. I thought maybe they were being sarcastic or something.

Geez! :)

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#177

Post by throwaway0a5e »

bart_spoon wrote: post #156
jerry1979 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I decided to take a look at Daybreak on google maps, but I'm having a hard time understanding how the layout is different than other developments. I do notice that the lane system looks nice as opposed to just having alleys. Is there other stuff you like?

I’m not the OP, but I’ve seen Daybreak I think emphasis there is smaller single-family home lots, and lots of multi family buildings, all built within walking distances to amenities like restaurants, entertainment, grocery stores, clinics, the light railway station, etc. It kind of feels like a hybrid between large urban downtowns you might find in the US and elsewhere, and traditional American suburbs. Not remotely…

What you're describing is pretty much exactly what every rust belt city that had no development from 1960 to present day is like. Of course everyone who works in an office turns their nose up at those kinds of places because "muh good schools" or something along those lines.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#178

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

nwallin wrote: post #155
Thorentis wrote: post #103

Unfortunately this project lacks two things which are essential to a long-lasting, sustainable, and human-friendly town. 1) Architecture that inspires, elevates the soul, and will last the test of time. All I see is soulless pre-fabs. It looks like you're living in a shopping mall. 2) The freedom to create buildings and institutions that are meaningful to the residents who reside there. Churches, schools, sporting cl…

I tend to agree. Communities need to be built organically. Let's say a town has 5,000 buildings in it; is somebody going to pay an architecture firm to design 5,000 buildings for them? Or are they going to pay them to design 40 buildings and copy and paste 125 times? Neighborhoods in the United States have a tendancy to look like shit, and that's because most of them are planned developments that were designed and co…

Some planning can be good. Chicago had the Burnham Plan; New York had Olmsted. (People like to cite L'Enfant's DC but I don't actually think that turned out as well.) And Oglethorpe's Savannah Plan was a wonderful thing.

And Poundbury in the UK looks like it might turn out well.

But the designer has to have taste, give a shit, and care about something besides money.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#179

Post by ethanbond »

notJim wrote: post #134
ethanbond wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well… most towns/subdivisions with zealous planning suck. The best cities in the world appear to be very organically grown. Maybe this is an illusion?

How would you measure this? How do you differentiate "zealous planning" from "normal [?] planning?" This just feels like confirmation bias to me.

Totally ripe for confirmation bias, which is why my comment seemed very uncertain. I’m kind of going from a heuristic of older cities versus newer ones under the (potentially wrong!) assumption that zoning has tended toward more stringency over time.

Re: Culdesac Tempe: The first car-free neighborhood built from scratch in the US

#180

Post by kevinpet »

sammalloy wrote: post #128
kevinpet wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to get off the notion that those working the most entry level jobs should be living in the newest housing.

> People need to get off the notion that those working the most entry level jobs should be living in the newest housing. The infrastructure in the US is old and dilapidated. Newer housing is energy efficient, safer, and more conducive to modern living requirements (high speed internet, solar, heat and cooling), regardless of what kind of job a person keeps.

A new Tesla is all of those things too, but expecting a construction laborer or call center worker to drive one is delusional.
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