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Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

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Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#71

Post by z0r »

Steko wrote: post #69

The level of IP related discourse on HN is reminiscent of talking politics with people who spend all their time listening to talk radio. I mean of course Ronald Reagan singlehandedly killed communism and minorities caused the housing crisis but did you know that the entire patent and copyright system could be removed tomorrow and everything would be just hunky dory? Fact: way too many obvious or stupid patents are gr…

Taxing a patent directly in the way you suggest is a terrible idea. Then smaller innovators who might benefit from patent protection are priced out by larger players directly! The value of the patent becomes proportional to the wealth of the patent holder, not the value of the innovation being protected.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#72

Post by redthrowaway »

podperson wrote: post #52
nkassis wrote: post #48

HTC has some leverage but I have a feeling, after seeing OS 10.7, that Apple cares less about the Mac then their iOS devices. Would they sacrifice the Macs for the chance to block Android?

More importantly, the same problem applies to anything not using nVidia GPUs, which is most low-end desktop PCs (Intel integrated GPUs) and a lot of high-end desktop PCs (anything with AMD). So now we can't have a PC with the best GPU and CPU because Intel and nVidia are suing each other over IP, and we can't have a cheap PC because Intel is infringing on S3 patents, and we can't even give up and get a top-of-the-lin…

Not to nitpick, but while Intel owns the high end CPU market, the current ATI/AMD top end GPUs are much better than nVidia's offering. Unless, that is, I missed a major nVidia release lately...

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#74

Post by temp765 »

Nothing in the article suggests HTC's patent is ridiculous like what was portrayed recently in the TAL program about Intellectual Ventures.

There doesn't seem to be anything inherently absurd about patenting an image compression system. I mean, imagine it was a small company that invented a new compression system that was 20% better then all the competition. Would they too be chastised if they tried to protect themselves from large corporations that ignore intellectual property law?

Patent are supposed to incentivize innovation and give the patent holder an edge against the competition as a sort of prize for his work. This "edge" was sold to HTC, and now HTC has every right to protect it. Seems like Apple should just either suck it up and pay a licensing fee, or change their hardware/software to get around using this technology.

The problem with the patent system is the disgusting legal harassment done by patent trolls - where smallish companies are sued over absurd patent and because they don't have the financial means to legally defend themselves they're pressured into settling; this case doesn't seem to exhibit any of those problems.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#76

Post by jonknee »

willyt wrote: post #56
jonknee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps because it's defensive? If HTC struck first and tried to kill the iPhone, I'd wager the headlines would have been reversed.

But it's not defensive if they acted in bad faith to begin with. The billboard adds for htc phones looked like ad's for iPhones until you got close enough to read the copy. The implication being 'an iPhone, but cheaper'. I have no problem with someone coming up with something better, but I was surprised that they were able to get away with something so clearly mimicking the look and feel of an iPhone.

Billboard ads have nothing to do with patents. Neither does the look and feel.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#77

Post by dantheman »

Steko wrote: post #69

The level of IP related discourse on HN is reminiscent of talking politics with people who spend all their time listening to talk radio. I mean of course Ronald Reagan singlehandedly killed communism and minorities caused the housing crisis but did you know that the entire patent and copyright system could be removed tomorrow and everything would be just hunky dory? Fact: way too many obvious or stupid patents are gr…

The solution is that intellectual property and government granted monopolies are bad and should not be the law. They exist on shaky ground in that we assume that they produce more good than harm -- not a well grounded assumption imho. A case can be made that in most cases they are used by entrenched players against the small upstart.

Fact: We can't assume we'll ever get an ideal system and must choose among flawed ones. So we must do an analysis at that level and not some sort of comparison among ideals.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#78

Post by kelnos »

dpcan wrote: post #7

Let's just stop the import of all computers and phones over Patent rulings. HTC and Apple should stick to their guns and deny imports of their products. Once nobody can buy computers or phones in the U.S. anymore THEN, just MAYBE, Congress will decide to fix this Patent mess.

Yep. On one hand I'm thrilled about this ruling, since it gives HTC some teeth in negotiations on the Android-related patents Apple is suing them over. On the other hand, I just ordered a new MacBook Air (with Intel graphics, which appear to be in violation of this patent), and I'm hoping it gets to the US before any possible import ban goes into effect.

Further proof that hurting the customer is really all that these patents do.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#79

Post by dpatru »

z0r wrote: post #71
Steko wrote: post #69

The level of IP related discourse on HN is reminiscent of talking politics with people who spend all their time listening to talk radio. I mean of course Ronald Reagan singlehandedly killed communism and minorities caused the housing crisis but did you know that the entire patent and copyright system could be removed tomorrow and everything would be just hunky dory? Fact: way too many obvious or stupid patents are gr…

Taxing a patent directly in the way you suggest is a terrible idea. Then smaller innovators who might benefit from patent protection are priced out by larger players directly! The value of the patent becomes proportional to the wealth of the patent holder, not the value of the innovation being protected.

He's not saying that small inventors couldn't profit. Just that their profits as a result of monopoly rights should be capped at a dollar amount. Patent rights are already capped in time: 20 years from the time of filing. After that, inventors no longer have the monopoly. The problem is that in high-tech fields, 20 years is too long. We don't want individual inventors to hold back progress for 20 years. Capping returns seems like a good solution. Inventors are still compensated, but within reason.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#80

Post by Steko »

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #65
Steko wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, you didn't. Android is not "just a clone" but it's clear that they decided to aggressively clone the iphone's features. If you don't think that's obvious, you missed what Android looked like 6 months before the iphone debut and 6 months after. Now whether those features are protectable as IP or not is another matter but if they are it's no surprise that Apple would want to enforce such protections.

Aggressively clone as in...? A top statusbar? A touchscreen? A virtual keyboard? A grid layout of applications? Custom applications? Hate to break it to you, but iOS wasn't the first to do any of those, Android included most of them before the iPhone announcement (from the little that we know of its development at Google beginning in 2005), and the first Android phone (G1) didn't resemble the iPhone more than any oth…

"Aggressively clone as in...? "

As in completely overhauled the device from a blackberry knock off to an iphone knock off:

http://random.andrewwarner.com/what-googles-android-looked-l...

"Hate to break it to you, but iOS wasn't the first to do any of those"

I'm not making any claim that (1) iOS was first for any of those or that (2) whatever claims Apple is making are protectable or not or (3) whether google violates those claims or not.

What I'm saying is that: (a) some claims and protections have been granted, (b) it's Apple's right to protect them until/unless these protections are overturned/invalidated, and (c) I have no sympathy for people violating legitimate claims. This whole sub-thread is about "striking first" makes Apple a bully which is total bullshit. They're striking first because they're the person getting copied, that's how the dynamic works.

"the first Android phone (G1) didn't resemble the iPhone more than any other smartphone on the market. Most people that I knew were comparing it to the Sidekick when it first released."

That's rich, every review of the G1 I can find compares it directly with the iphone. Custom time limit a google search.

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