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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#781

Post by 5faulker »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

The history of humanity is filled with stories where technologies require a full adherence to a set of rules to avoid externaliies. And since this cannot be done, it explains much of what's happening in the world today.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#782

Post by titzer »

dTal wrote: post #518
endtime wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it funny how COVID has caused the government-inclined to want more government and the government-disinclined to want less government? Almost as if this complex issue about which we still don't have all the facts has just made people feel that their prior beliefs have been confirmed? I wonder if there's a phrase for a bias like that.

Are you saying that Covid has had zero net effect on people's political inclinations? That the stark lesson in the importance of coordinated action has only hit home amongst those who were already "government inclined"? Because I don't that's true.

I would put it more broadly. COVID was put in service of continuing culture wars and political infighting, like literally everything else. People hate each so much they would rather have death (for them or for themselves) than agree. It's crazy. Everything politicized, even goddamn PPE and vaccination.

> those who were already "government inclined"

It isn't so much "government inclined", or even left versus right, it's in-tribe vs out-tribe. Some tribes, clearly, have only become more entrenched and delusional.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#783

Post by ErikVandeWater »

mywittyname wrote: post #760
ptkd wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take a lot, and it’s kind of misinformed. The primary drawbacks of nuclear are: 1) incredible slow to build. A typical plant takes ~20 years from decision to productionized 2) extremely expensive, with a massively frontloaded cost. By contrast, solar and wind are fast to install and now cheaper. > wind power can be zero at some parts of the day There are a few solutions to this actually. First, having a mo…

Nuclear power can be fast to build. It would need to be constructed in volume, with immutable designs. Right now, America builds so few nuclear plants that they are essentially all one-off designs. Mass production is key here. Vis-à-vis costs, the government can poof into existence trillions of dollars with no ill effects. Cost is an easily overcome obstacle. If a mandate came down to produce 1000 new nuclear reactor…

> the government can poof into existence trillions of dollars with no ill effects

This is because the federal reserve's printed money goes basically into treasuries and stocks.

The rich save basically all of their money. If they decided to spend it on real-world goods, there would be huge inflation.

But it's probably all nil. The cost of building enough nuclear power plants with economy of scale is probably near the same as building enough solar and wind farms.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#784

Post by Cycl0ps »

titzer wrote: post #748
Cycl0ps wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about it myself and the best answer that comes to mind is clear-cutting entire forests, tossing that biomass down a mineshaft, and replanting to start the process over again. All this talk of planting trees removes atmospheric carbon, but until it's out of the system entirely we're one forest fire away from wiping out decades of carbon removal.

Do not clear-cut forests. You will obliterate the biome that is the understory. It's like giving yourself a haircut and removing your scalp down to the skull.

Okay, good point. Maybe turning the entire Amazon into a reverse coal mine would do more harm than good. I still think we need long-term carbon storage and using pre-existing timber seems like a good first step. If there's a better capture solution in terms of tonnes/KWH/year go with that, but tossing trees down a hole is a good example.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#785

Post by philipkglass »

shreyshnaccount wrote: post #736

why is the main focus on CO2 and not sulphides and nitrogenous gasses that cause a helluvalot more greenhouse effect than CO2 and are released by industries all around? am I missing something or is this fact ignored?( not saying that nothing should be done about CO2 tho)

It's because CO2 is by far the largest contributor, accounting for 80% of warming emissions from human activities in the US:

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

Some gases containing sulfur and nitrogen are far more potent per molecule than CO2, but they are emitted in much smaller volumes. They collectively account for less than 10% of warming emissions.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#786

Post by syshum »

cal5k wrote: post #717
syshum wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> collective action isn't something we can rely on hmmm >>Governments need to You do understand that government is collective action, and you should not rely on it right? > tax CO2 emissions on the business side I am still opposed to Co2 taxation in most of the implementations proposed. it ends up just creating perverse incentives for companies to game the system, Just look at how destructive ewaste regulations have…

Bingo. Carbon taxes in Canada really function as yet another power grab, with the federal government promising to rebate the taxes back to Canadians. In effect it's a case of "Just trust us with the money... we promise we'll give it back", which will obviously change as soon as more money is needed to fuel their insatiable appetite for spending. It's not even a question of "if", it's "when". In practice, this means m…

>>GDP per capita is lagging badly behind the US.

Dont worry, our government (US) is trying its best to collapse our economy so it will not long before that trend reverses I am sure

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#787

Post by Earw0rm »

fouc wrote: post #344
nosianu wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production Not really. For some reason the actually quite simple problem is needlessly complicated in the discussions. Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. Any carbon above ground is part of the cycle that includes atmospheric CO2. You need huge effort to change how much of it is in CO2 form at any time while still ha…

That's not super helpful to the individual. Take an individual that bikes everywhere. What other changes can he make in his life that would reduce the demand of "digging out carbon"? As it turns out, he's relying on rubber wheels for his bicycle, he's relying on synthetic clothing for comfort, and numerous in his life products are made with plastic. What are the highest impact changes he can make?

Get fewer of his calories from animal products, for one thing - not necessarily go vegetarian/vegan, but cutting down by 50-75%, and switching to grass-fed, organic meat (which doesn't require petrochemical derived fertiliser in its production) makes a significant difference.

But be mindful that not all plant calories are equal, especially those that are air freighted (more of a problem in NW Europe which airfreights a lot of fresh fruit and veg in from African countries than the US).

Take trains not planes wherever possible, and avoid long haul flights entirely if you can: one return long-haul flight can undo all the good of a year's worth of biking.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#788

Post by kuraudo »

justin66 wrote: post #730
collegecamp293 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the 40% are certainly not going be convinced if the "first United States Special Presidential Envoy for Climate" flew on his private jet 16 times to places like Martha's Vineyard since January. Can the leaders of climate action actually live up to their own standards?

> Well, the 40% are certainly not going be convinced if the "first United States Special Presidential Envoy for Climate" flew on his private jet 16 times to places like Martha's Vineyard since January. Why? I mean, okay, getting angry about hypocrisy is fun. But why would you allow someone else's hypocrisy to sway your view of what is or is not objectively true? That is not critical thinking.

Disclaimer: I'm not defending their point of you, just reasoning through it.

My naive take is that it calls into question if the supposed catastrophe (from the 40%'s point of view) is real if the leaders aren't taking it seriously themselves. "objectively true" only works if you understand the problem without, from your point of view, suspicious people explaining it to you. In this case, the suspicious people would be the primary ones telling you that you have to pay this tax while they are mysteriously exempt.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#789

Post by korantu »

ptkd wrote: post #740
merpnderp wrote: post #720

If anyone actually believed it was "code red for humanity" they'd be pushing nuclear power. There is zero chance of moving off carbon energy sources without causing catastrophic mayhem, unless we use massive amounts of nuclear. For instance, the last 4 years my state has averaged 37% production of total possible installed wind generation capacity. This is a very windy state which is in the top 2 for installed wind ca…

I see this take a lot, and it’s kind of misinformed. The primary drawbacks of nuclear are: 1) incredible slow to build. A typical plant takes ~20 years from decision to productionized 2) extremely expensive, with a massively frontloaded cost. By contrast, solar and wind are fast to install and now cheaper. > wind power can be zero at some parts of the day There are a few solutions to this actually. First, having a mo…

The report talks about hypothetical setup with smart girds and customers reacting on price change. This configuration was never tried at 80% scale. It might or might not work.

People did try decarbonise industrial economy to 70% - it worked with technology existing not now but in the eighties. And it did not put any limitations on consumers, while taking just 10 years to implement.

Surely at code red we should be looking at things that were shown to work?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#790

Post by kuraudo »

pessimizer wrote: post #401
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' What almost alarms me more than the thought of a climate apocalypse is that I don't think this (a UN report) is going to have any effect on the opinions of 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference, perhaps we (as a species) don't deserv…

> Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference That won't make a difference; Liberals will blame the Floridians themselves for being conservative, and Conservatives will say it was an inevitable part of God's Plan, that saying it shouldn't have happened is a criticism of His Judgment, and that saying that it was caused by humans is claiming the type of power that only belongs to…

I don't think strawmanning political parties is particularly helpful here.
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