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Messaging and chat control

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Messaging and chat control

#91

Post by st_goliath »

ciconia wrote: post #38

Does anybody have an idea how big child pornography is on the internet? Are those measures commensurate with the size of the problem? I'm asking seriously.

Hi, you must be new to this game.

Here's the deal: none of this is about, or for the children. It's just a bullshit excuse to label anyone who opposes it a pedo. Same goes if "think about the terrorists" is used instead, which might come around soon-ish, since we started this round with "think about the children".

OT: if somebody does have some statistics, that might actually be interesting; don't let me discourage you from responding, but I'd still call it OT, given that it's not actually about the children.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#92

Post by [deleted] »

cjfd wrote: post #73
zibzab wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…

The EU parliament has far too little power to come anywhere close to the EU being a democracy. The problem being that in second reading there has to be a 2/3 majority to approve amendments.

[deleted]

Re: Messaging and chat control

#93

Post by dmos62 »

kristjank wrote: post #3

I think this isn't getting nearly enough traction, especially considering how undemocratic EU's legislative procedures can get. Considering the lack of direct democracy in the European Union, exposure and public protest is the only viable way to oppose this legislature. There's also an ongoing petition against the legislature: https://www.openpetition.eu/petition/online/preserve-eprivac...

You sure are throwing words around. Undemocratic, lack of direct democracy. Are you confusing the two, or are these different complaints? Sounds like you're trying to say that any representative democracy isn't really a democracy.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#94

Post by juniperplant »

AtticHacker wrote: post #52

If it becomes mandatory for email providers to screen emails, will services such as Protonmail become illegal in the EU? Since they don't have access to their users' email content because of encryption.

I'm wondering the same. I suppose they will have to implement some way to scan the emails, or else they will be forced out of business.

That said, I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#95

Post by ho_schi »

I want to cry if is see such dangerous things. Most European parties send unknown politicians to Strasbourg and let them vote on important topics with low media coverage. Later the local politicians - which act mostly in Bruessels - claim that they have no way but follow Strasbourgs/Bruessels decisions and write even worse state laws upon it.

I think we need a new Europe state with a actual parliament in charge, which means the people there are accountable and in power. Without the Commission, Council and Presidency of Council[1]. Instead one actual parliament and one actual government. The Europeans state are integrated part of it, like elsewhere. Next the stuff can be fixed: We just need one army. And one social-security system with one economic policy. And one state department (foreign politics).

Most politicians still think of Europe as a economy council but we people expect a sovereign country/state. The former "economy council" could solve economy related issues within Europe in the 1950s. But I think we have much bigger things to do.

[1] I don't know how somebody can seriously use something like a rolling presidency. You can do that with a mediator position or referee.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#96

Post by ekianjo »

toxik wrote: post #46
kecupochren wrote: post #24

The news are pretty depressing these last couple of days. We're marching towards very dystopian future.

We have had unprecedented growth and development in the world, it's just that bad news sells more papers. Don't let it bring you down!

So as long as some KPIs are positive, let's ignore the loss of fundamental freedoms?

Re: Messaging and chat control

#97

Post by dmos62 »

kristjank wrote: post #31
zibzab wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…

It's not my fault that I was too young to vote at the last EU elections. That's changed since and you bet your ass that I'll vote for the right people when I'm able to. Also raising awareness and promoting a petition about an issue isn't the same as raising pitchforks. I'm thinking there's a subtext here...

I chuckled when you said "the right people". Like, there's the right people, and then what's left. Get it? Right and left. Puns.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#98

Post by anfelor »

The scary thing about this is that many people have images that look like child porn at home: Family photos of naked grandchildren playing at the sea or in the mud, as well as sexting between consenting teenagers. There is no way automatic classification can distinguish these from real child porn, because they look almost identical and thus many private pictures will be shared with the government. This not only infringes the privacy of those people in the most drastic way possible, but might also lead to lawsuits that can tear families apart (think your father being accused of having CP only for it to turn out months later it was an old picture of yourself). The article mentions that 40% of CP investigations in Germany are started against minors (implied: through sexting), which shows that this concern is not purely theoretical at all.

This was not an issue with the old approach of comparing checksums against public CP images, but it will increasingly be if we use more AI algorithms for this.

EDIT: Probably Apples neural hashes that are currently in the news won't be vulnerable to this since they trained specifically to only detect changes in color/cropping/rotation. But we can't know for sure since the white paper is not that detailed and "naked kid on beach" photos all look really similar usually.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#99

Post by effie »

AtticHacker wrote: post #52

If it becomes mandatory for email providers to screen emails, will services such as Protonmail become illegal in the EU? Since they don't have access to their users' email content because of encryption.

That is the probable reason why this is being pushed through.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#100

Post by the-dude »

bserge wrote: post #27
czzr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical apartheid? What’s that referring to?

Well, people of a certain background get treated like shit by the supposedly universal healthcare systems in Europe, so there's that.

Could you please specify 'certain' instead of hinting?

Sources would be great too.

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