Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's still no and far from a direct democracy.
Can you please be sensible? Direct demoracy is not working with 445 million people.
Yes? Any data for that?
Messaging and chat control
81–90 of 336 posts
Re: Messaging and chat control
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…
> we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You are describing a representative democracy, the parent pointed out the lack of direct democracy in the process. And I would tend to agree that there needs to be more direct democracy involved at some point in the policy making process to accommodate just such a scenario where it's clear the vast majority are not happy with the result. Representative democracy has it's pla…
Even a representative democracy is a far fetched idea with the EU.
Nobody really understand how the EU works, except for a few bureaucrats.
There are too many proxies. You vote for a local party, then you find out they go into a coalition because the parliament is huge: over 700 seats. And those parties in one coalition have very different agenda's.
Then you look deeper, and the parliament's power is very limited, and most of the power lies with the council and commission.
Both are not chosen in an election but in negotiations by the governments, which tends to mean certain countries like Germany and France have a very big say. Of course in a very indirect way these are somewhat chosen by certain part you of the people in the EU.
Re: Messaging and chat control
#83It's agendas like these when you realize submitting your country laws to legislation from Brusel was a fatal error.
Right on. Looking into ways of stopping this from happening has given me a very real feeling of desperation. There's no real way for an EU citizen to stop laws like these from getting accepted. No option for a referendum, no option for a veto, the best bet is getting the EU court to annul it, but that takes decades.
EU citizens CAN block this! Make your representative in the Council of the EU accountable. If 4 members veto this the legislation will not pass.
If you can't move your country representative to veto the bill, then the issue is not the EU: it's your government.
As Europeans we have to stop this very sneaky campaign of "citizens can't do anything" - it's a self fulfilling prophecy and the sharpest tool the lobbies have in the EU.
Your country's government has a say on it, and you have a say on your country's government. Make them accountable.
Re: Messaging and chat control
#84Perfect timing, the EU can ask now Apple to search their phones.
Re: Messaging and chat control
#85For a complex issue this document does a really good job of listing the various problems with this 'scan everything for CSAM' approach. These two points bear repeating:
“You can falsely be reported and investigated for allegedly disseminating child sexual exploitation material. Messaging and chat control algorithms are known to flag completely legal vacation photos of children on a beach, for example. According to Swiss federal police authorities, 86% of all machine-generated reports turn out to be without merit. 40% of all criminal investigation procedures initiated in Germany for “child pornography” target minors.
On your next trip overseas, you can expect big problems. Machine-generated reports on your communications may have been passed on to other countries, such as the USA, where there is no data privacy – with incalculable results.”
Re: Messaging and chat control
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
It's reported in the main government news source, the tagesschau, in Germany all the time and (at least for Germany) its also blown waaaayy out of proportion. For example, in my home-town of 170,000 the demo was 30 people… The "police brutality" used against the QAnon, Nazis, and the so called "Querdenker" demonstrators here in Germany is laughable, when you compare what the police does against left-leaning demonstra…
> in my home-town of 170,000 the demo was 30 people
This is consistent with my home town in NL.
Re: Messaging and chat control
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Medical apartheid? What’s that referring to?
[flagged]
> France, Italy, Germany, Greece, the UK and others are experiencing widespread protest - some in the millions
Germany's largest drew just short of 40k people, that was when they tried to storm the Parliament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_over_COVID-19_policie...). "Querdenken" is loud but entirely irrelevant.
And in France, the protests are (as usual for the French) not just Corona containment measures, but general social issue protests.
Re: Messaging and chat control
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry, what country were you from again, that has a human rights record so much cleaner than the EU? It sounds like a lovely place.
This is not substantive. Please read the HN guidelines.
Alright, let me spell it out. You contend that "submitting your country[sic] laws to legislation from Brusel[sic] was a fatal error", on the grounds of a single piece of legislation. The same argument can be used to argue against any sort of government, since it's a rare government that makes no mistakes at all. The EU is top-tier in a wide range of areas spanning from human rights to food safety. So I ask again - where do you think is better?
Re: Messaging and chat control
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's still no and far from a direct democracy.
Can you please be sensible? Direct demoracy is not working with 445 million people.
It could work, just do referendum in every country and then implement the result. It would require that people in power in all countries wanted to give power to their people, and implemented it securely. Which is why it won't happen.
Re: Messaging and chat control
#90It's agendas like these when you realize submitting your country laws to legislation from Brusel was a fatal error.
I agree. Individual countries are equally corrupted by big businesses and authoritarian leaning, but you can generally count on inefficient flip flopping right-left parties to not do too much damage in any direction. The EU seems to be way more efficient in getting us straight to 1984 or Soviet Russia V2.
I am replying to all the posts pushing this defeatist agenda. Not only it's wrong, but it's also dangerous.
It is representatives of the countries in the Council of the EU voting these legislations through: hold them accountable as you would hold them accountable locally.
Don't fall for the narration of the EU as a third party where your local representatives have no say. If four countries veto the bill, the bill is dead. 4 out if 27 - all done by influencing your government representative in the Council.