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Messaging and chat control

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Messaging and chat control

#31

Post by kristjank »

zibzab wrote: post #19
kristjank wrote: post #3

I think this isn't getting nearly enough traction, especially considering how undemocratic EU's legislative procedures can get. Considering the lack of direct democracy in the European Union, exposure and public protest is the only viable way to oppose this legislature. There's also an ongoing petition against the legislature: https://www.openpetition.eu/petition/online/preserve-eprivac...

Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…

It's not my fault that I was too young to vote at the last EU elections. That's changed since and you bet your ass that I'll vote for the right people when I'm able to. Also raising awareness and promoting a petition about an issue isn't the same as raising pitchforks. I'm thinking there's a subtext here...

Re: Messaging and chat control

#32

Post by petre »

the-dude wrote: post #30
petre wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the gathering is large enough they can't stop it and will back down. See the yellow vests movement.

That only works for gatherings not associated with a legal entity. For example a sports club ( football? ) can't ignore the rules or it will be fined / closed.

It depends. In France unoins will organize public gatherings and won't be fined or closed because they have real power to shut down a whole sector of the economy and the ability to negotiate with the government.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#33

Post by tomxor »

zibzab wrote: post #19
kristjank wrote: post #3

I think this isn't getting nearly enough traction, especially considering how undemocratic EU's legislative procedures can get. Considering the lack of direct democracy in the European Union, exposure and public protest is the only viable way to oppose this legislature. There's also an ongoing petition against the legislature: https://www.openpetition.eu/petition/online/preserve-eprivac...

Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…

> we vote on who to send to EU parliament.

You are describing a representative democracy, the parent pointed out the lack of direct democracy in the process. And I would tend to agree that there needs to be more direct democracy involved at some point in the policy making process to accommodate just such a scenario where it's clear the vast majority are not happy with the result.

Representative democracy has it's place, but the reality is that you cannot pick and choose - most people want privacy, but most people are also aware of the wider issues and concerned if the fringe parties are competent enough in making decisions in other areas. Perhaps a good compromise is to be able to shoot down their propositions, so that even though they may not further the ideals the majority want in all areas, they will at least be prevented from eroding them. But as the parent pointed out, there is no mechanism in place to do this currently, so people are limited to protests and petitions.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#34

Post by olodus »

zibzab wrote: post #19
kristjank wrote: post #3

I think this isn't getting nearly enough traction, especially considering how undemocratic EU's legislative procedures can get. Considering the lack of direct democracy in the European Union, exposure and public protest is the only viable way to oppose this legislature. There's also an ongoing petition against the legislature: https://www.openpetition.eu/petition/online/preserve-eprivac...

Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…

Yup. Have done and will continue to do exactly this. While I don't find the Pirate party's policies comprehensive enough for my national government, I do find the EU parliament the perfect level of government for the issue they address to be handled at.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#35

Post by ant6n »

zibzab wrote: post #19
kristjank wrote: post #3

I think this isn't getting nearly enough traction, especially considering how undemocratic EU's legislative procedures can get. Considering the lack of direct democracy in the European Union, exposure and public protest is the only viable way to oppose this legislature. There's also an ongoing petition against the legislature: https://www.openpetition.eu/petition/online/preserve-eprivac...

Hold your horses, put down the pitchforks. You realise the author is a _member of the European Parliament_?? And at least in my corner of EU we vote on who to send to EU parliament. You can vote on whoever you want in the national elections and then vote for the pirate party for the EU seat. Edit: from your comment history I guess you vote far right, which is usually the part of EU pushing hardest for these measures?…

You realize a single or even multiple MPs cant block the passing of laws in parlaiment, since laws are passed by majorities, not consensus/unanimiusly. So please do get out those pitch, especially since this is the next level of surveillance.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#36

Post by kleiba »

avsteele wrote: post #29
kleiba wrote: post #6

Privacy is something that people usually only care about on a theoretical level. Practically speaking, they're often happy to not care so much at all if they get something more tangible in return. --- Company: Excuse me, would you mind us profiling you through an accurate survey of most of your everyday purchases? Customer: Heck no! Company: What if we let you collect "points" that will maybe someday safe you a littl…

Yes, users are price sensitive when it comes to selling their privacy. They also have a different sensitivity upon consideration of who the other party is and their perceived/intended use of the data. To me, this isn't so surprising and is fully consistent with a greater willingness to give personal info to e.g. Amazon than e.g. the government.

They also have a different sensitivity upon consideration of who the other party is and their perceived/intended use of the data.

Except once their data is out, they have no control over where it will end up. Profiling data is regularly sold to third parties.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#37

Post by dTal »

effie wrote: post #13

It's agendas like these when you realize submitting your country laws to legislation from Brusel was a fatal error.

I'm sorry, what country were you from again, that has a human rights record so much cleaner than the EU? It sounds like a lovely place.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#39

Post by effie »

q-rews wrote: post #20

Looking forward to the 2050 Asshole Control Act that will mandate daily colonoscopies in case someone is hiding a pendrive with CP on it. Just in case. You wouldn’t be opposed, would you? What are you a nonce? Arrest the downvoter.

Citizen, show me child protector greenpass on your phone. You don't have it? We will have to search your phone and your cavities.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#40

Post by cblconfederate »

kleiba wrote: post #6

Privacy is something that people usually only care about on a theoretical level. Practically speaking, they're often happy to not care so much at all if they get something more tangible in return. --- Company: Excuse me, would you mind us profiling you through an accurate survey of most of your everyday purchases? Customer: Heck no! Company: What if we let you collect "points" that will maybe someday safe you a littl…

I think it's counterproductive to frame the discussion in terms of privacy. The real term is spying, how much spying do you want your to do
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