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Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

cell.com

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Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#151

This paper further supports the fact that naturally acquired immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is 1) robust and 2) durable. 1) Robust means the immune response recognizes many different parts of the virus. 2) Durable means the immune response remains detectable - and likely effective at protecting the individual - for a long period of time. A robust immune response is important because it provides a certain degree of protection…

Reference [1] is applicable to how our body handles an immune response to the viral infection in general: i.e. whether naturally acquired, or through controlled vaccination. Natural infections were, naturally focused upon, in order to understand the baseline dynamics of viral infection.

Reference [2] is...it says just as much about the efficacy of vaccination as the efficacy of natural immunity:

> The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated.

Read reference [3] to understand why natural immunity doesn't cut it. Note that widespread natural immunity causes the same positive selection pressure as widespread vaccine deployment, and:

> Finally, our work suggests that immune evasion requiring one to two mutations occurs within months, raising the prospect that this phenomenon will further shorten the duration of natural immunity...

The paper goes on to provide (under Discussion) a series of strategies for developing a vaccination system that takes into account modelled viral evolution. Can't come up with strategies like that for natural immunity, apart from: "periodically re-infect individual"...which is exactly what vaccines do, in a controlled manner.

Reference [4] and [5] are research tabulating mutations the virus is undergoing to counter both natural acquired and vaccine-mediated immune responses. It is not an indictment against vaccines, but just like paper [3], provide strategies on how to update vaccines. That updates will be required is not a surprise to anyone. Viral evolution has long been known of, and no one expected the emergency COVID-19 vaccines to be effective until the end of time.

Reference [6]...did you read it? It's about vaccines which protect the host(keep them alive), but still keep them infectious (capable of transmission). None of the COVID-19 vaccines do that...

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#152

I wonder if having had different less deadly coronaviruses also gives some immunity?

That was a theory around why certain countries have fared relatively well, places like Cambodia and Vietnam.

Their populations could have been exposed to similar viruses and would have had some built in immunity.

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far I’m aware this is an American thing. I’m from Finland (no vaccine pass yet) but travelling in Germany/Austria right now. They have the concept of 3G (don’t ask me to translate) but basically you can’t eat, drink or stay anywhere without either a vaccine, recovery or negative test. There is a pop up antigen test facility about 100m from the restaurant where anyone can go get a quick negative result and go do th…

Most of the pushback I hear here (Italy) about the ability to just get tested as an alternative to vaccine certification is the cost. It's perceived as a tax on the freedom to not vaccinate.

I just looked it up. Where I'm staying the tests are 57e, you do it yourself, and get a result within 20mins which is valid for 24h. That definitely is a high cost.

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#154
If having COVID imparts as much future protection as the J&J vaccine, there is an ethical argument that one could make:

help vaccinate the poor who want it instead of adding to the asymptotic protection of the rich. Else, people might argue we should all have n- booster shots to get even better protection, when we still don’t have enough for the entire world. Vaccines are currently zero sum.

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#155
post #19

Its important to keep studies like this in mind when talking with people who refuse to take the vaccine because they "already had COVID". In a very real sense, if natural antibodies are durable, persistent, and effective; the vaccine is an unnecessary medical procedure. Doctors would not cut off your legs for no reason; that would be unethical. The vaccine is a medical procedure like any other; if the benefit is ques…

I know this thread is catnip for the antivax contingent that reliably appears, but this argument has several problems. First, our vaccines provide a stronger immune response than infection, as has been well documented by now[1]. Vaccination on top of prior infection boosts the response[2]. Second, the harm from the vaccine is minimal, and comparing it with an amputation is ridiculous (in spite of the large number of…

No. Stop it. It's not simple enough. Stop this crazy obsession.

Adverse reaction are real. Here's a woman who has had her legs amputated[1] a few days after receiving the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Stated cause: she contracted COVID. More cases like it, blood clots, heart inflammation, sudden death. You all know this is happening, don't you?

Close your eyes and sweep it under the rug. Keep ignoring the uncomfortable and unfortunate. Keep dismissing it as minimal harm.

You'd make the Nazis proud. When the Germans committed crimes against humanity the general population simply didn't know about it. They didn't notice millions of people were taken forcefully out of their homes. Rounded up and brought somewhere. Simply no idea what was happening. No of course they knew, they just suppressed it. To protect themselves and their fragile, fear-filled, state of mind.

It sounds drastic, but this is the path you're on. Too committed to this narrative. Unable to evaluate the situation for what it is. The vaccine is not necessary and neither entirely safe. You have been listening to the fear porn for too long. The numbers don't add up, left and right. The reality is much more mundane.

The number of COVID death in China to this day is 4,636 [2]. People outside of risk groups have nothing to worry, will experience no to mild symptoms, before acquiring natural lasting immunity. Death rates around the world are barely moving, in many countries dead on average. The studies are worthless, when the larger, population-wide scale tells a different tale. People just aren't dying en masse - there's nothing to support this madness, or inject everybody with spike protein on annual basis, you truly are too daft to realize that? Do you think someone that does not have symptoms of illness, can be considered ill?

Spin it however you want, ignore the inconsistencies, inject yourself with whatever calms your mind, but DO NOT force it onto others and for your own sake DO NOT continue to take booster shots.

[1] https://www.ibtimes.sg/who-jummai-nache-minnesota-womans-bot... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antibodies wane, but B-cell and T-cell response is important for longer term protection. Fortunately, we have results (including [B] and [T]) that vaccines also induce these memory cell responses. Also, the durability of immunity from coronavirus probably depends on the exact coronavirus. It does seem to be true for SARS, but possibly less so for the seasonal coronaviruses that cause a respectable fraction of common…

While they may stimulate some B and T, they aren’t close to the levels from infection. From what I’ve seen many coronavirus have durable immunity from infection, you’d need to cite that they vary. Also, from what I’ve seen the T and B cell response is not nearly the same effect, nor as durable. Further, like the Israeli report, there are a handful more reports of previously infected not getting reinfected at nearly t…

I think you added the links in an edit?

The Science cite shows something that's very different than what people might take from your comment. Briefly, prior infection plus one mRNA dose induces a very good immune response, much better than a single dose without prior infection. It does not compare two mRNA doses against prior infection.

I believe the cite I provided does support the idea that coronaviruses vary, in particular that HCoV-229E exhibits continuous genetic drift. But here's an excellent paper that goes into a lot more detail on that: https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/j...

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#157
post #19

Its important to keep studies like this in mind when talking with people who refuse to take the vaccine because they "already had COVID". In a very real sense, if natural antibodies are durable, persistent, and effective; the vaccine is an unnecessary medical procedure. Doctors would not cut off your legs for no reason; that would be unethical. The vaccine is a medical procedure like any other; if the benefit is ques…

I think other comments may have pointed this out already, but there are several problems with this line of reasoning. When deciding on whether or not to administer a procedure or treatment, one must consider the balance of potential harms and benefits, while accounting for uncertainty. In this particular case, the potential for harm from the vaccine is quite low (this is borne out by the data), and the benefits are m…

This line of thinking assumes you can reliably separate people that have had covid from those that haven’t. In the real world requiring vaccines for everyone means vaccination of people that thought they had covid but didn’t.

Which I suspect may be the underlying reason studies are showing the vaccines are more effective than getting covid.

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this thread is catnip for the antivax contingent that reliably appears, but this argument has several problems. First, our vaccines provide a stronger immune response than infection, as has been well documented by now[1]. Vaccination on top of prior infection boosts the response[2]. Second, the harm from the vaccine is minimal, and comparing it with an amputation is ridiculous (in spite of the large number of…

No. Stop it. It's not simple enough. Stop this crazy obsession. Adverse reaction are real. Here's a woman who has had her legs amputated[1] a few days after receiving the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Stated cause: she contracted COVID. More cases like it, blood clots, heart inflammation, sudden death. You all know this is happening, don't you? Close your eyes and sweep it under the rug. Keep ignoring the uncomf…

Serious question, why should we believe China CCP numbers?

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#159

Not to disagree with the effectiveness of immunity gained by getting Covid-19, but also: "The evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants ... compared to antibodies acquired from an infection." https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera... "Vaccination offers longer, stronger immunity" https://www.jhsph.edu/cov…

We can cherry pick papers all day long to support or refute the idea that having had Covid19 is equivalent/better/worse than getting the vaccine. Anyone being honest can see that the jury is still out on the issue. But I can state 2 things with certainty. 1) having had it does offer some degree of immunization. 2) there is a lot of evidence that those spike proteins do damage. Given that, I dont know why some people lump previously infected folks in with anti-vaxxers. It's not even close to the same thinking.

Re: Longitudinal analysis shows durable immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection

#160
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The immunity acquired from infection may be more robust against variants since a broader set of antibodies are produced.

May be not. > The new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying “single letter” changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection. https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera...

Same source you quoted also says:

>Our findings show that most COVID-19 patients induce a wide-ranging immune defense against SARS-CoV-2 infection, encompassing antibodies and memory B cells recognizing both the RBD and other regions of the spike, broadly-specific and polyfunctional CD4+ T cells, and polyfunctional CD8+ T cells.

Meaning that natural immunity may be better, because it targets not just the spike protein like the vaccine, but also other parts of the virus.

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