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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#881

Post by curmudgeon22 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #655
bingohbangoh wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though? The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking

the dynamic is a feedback loop in either direction. More vaccinations means slowdown of spread which means slower rate of mutation and in turn easier ways to control the virus. Faster transmission means faster rate of mutations and having a harder time controlling the virus. 'Zero covid' or near-zero covid anyway does not 'reek' because it is perfectly attainable. The virus could be squashed pretty much completely. T…

A core difference is the smallpox vaccine had/has sterilizing immunity while the covid vaccines do not. I think given non-sterilizing immunity and the rate and scale of global vaccine roll outs, zero covid is virtually impossible.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#882

Post by rubatuga »

felipellrocha wrote: post #877
rubatuga wrote: post #874

It's horrible how confident and grandstanding the NYC government is of their own policy: “A strong stance needs to be taken,” the lawmaker added. “It will be controversial, but your stance — when we look back in history on this one, this will be a defining moment in your government.” They act like they know what's best, when in fact we have no idea how COVID-19 will evolve in the future or what the efficacy of the cu…

> we have studies coming out that show natural immunity is stronger than vaccine immunity against future COVID-19 infections Which... studies? As far as I've seen the opposite is true.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33907755/

T cell responses are important for viral infections. However, we see that T-cell responses are significantly decreased in vaccine group, compared to natural immunity.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#883

Post by shaklee3 »

mlang23 wrote: post #723
timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

Thanks for having the courage to write this. I couldnt agree more. I find the risk assessment argument of the thread parent really twisted. Younger people effectively have no risk of dying from covid. Elderly have. And now, the left is trying to force everyone to vaccinate, no matter how good or bad their immune system might be. This world has become a place I actually really dont want to live in. If this trend reall…

> Younger people effectively have no risk of dying from covid. Elderly have

Not true. Delta is showing increasingly worse numbers for younger people. Some children's hospitals are full from it. If you have another argument besides that one let's discuss.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#884

Post by [deleted] »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158
threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#885

Post by ghop02 »

aimkey wrote: post #705
colinmhayes wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated False, the vaccine is more effective than antibodies from a previous infection. It's not a huge difference, but it is absolutely statistically significant.

This message has been brought to you by Pfizer. Source or GTFO EDIT: Your downvotes are delicious as you provide no source. The notion of vaccine immunity being stronger than natural immunity, especially with mRNA vaccines, is absurd. You are generating response to a single surface protein of the virus. The virus has many surface proteins and a natural infection will tune the immune system to respond to all of them.…

There have been numerous studies showing that 2 doses elicits higher antibody responses than natural immunity alone, here's an example of one:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01325-6

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#886

Post by fighterpilot »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158
threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

It is definitely not reasonable for a healthy young person who hasn't had COVID yet to skip out on the vaccine, given that the long term complications from COVID are almost certainly going to be worse than any (if that) associated with a vaccine, and getting COVID eventually is pretty much guaranteed now.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#887

Post by ryan_lane »

swader999 wrote: post #600
tayo42 wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not show your ID at a bar? What privacy are you giving up here?

Do they scan it with a call to the cloud to verify it? That's the real threat here - continuous tracking, ability to turn it off or geo fence you to a certain area.

ID scans at bars have been normal for at least decade. Have you really never had your ID scanned? I find that hard to believe.

I hate it. There's no good reason to scan my ID when I'm very obviously of legal age. Some of the bars do this for tracking data and to sell your personal info. Some of the bars are lazy and it's a relatively straightforward way to validate your card.

There's a good reason to validate that I have a vaccine, though, because my presence there affects the life of the staff and other customers. I'm not giving up freedom here, because it's not my freedom to put others at risk, and they shouldn't have the freedom to put mine at risk.

Your slippery slope arguments are also really bad. You can already be (and already are) tracked by your cell phone at all times. We don't need vaccine checks to do it. If the scary government was going to come get you, they have more than enough at their disposal currently to do it.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#888

Post by logicchains »

yezr wrote: post #813
timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

You're not being asked to give up your basic human rights though. What you are being asked to do is to get a free, readily available vaccine that will protect you and others from current and future harm.

>What you are being asked to do is to get a free, readily available vaccine that will protect you and others from current and future harm.

A vaccine that also has a known chance of causing current harm, and an unknown chance of causing future harm.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#889

Post by mjn »

_ph_ wrote: post #685
ragingrobot wrote: post #6

Without getting into the whole vaccine thing... People need to start protesting with their wallets. People need to talk less and act more. I work in NYC, in an "essential" service. In the beginning myself and other workers were threatened with discipline if we did not show up for work. We were told to go straight home, and stay inside, and do as little as necessary otherwise. Now, this is easy for me, as I am single…

I am also voting with my wallet. Despite being vaccinated, I am watching the infection dynamcs closely when considering indoor activites, especially where I can't wear a mask.

Same here. I won't spend money anywhere where it seems likely that I'll have to encounter unvaccinated people, especially without masks. They can infect each other if they want, but leave me out.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#890

Post by 99_00 »

pb7 wrote: post #859
99_00 wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, but from the American news I watch a significant % of the population doesn't have the ability to get government ID. If they can't get that, how are they going to get vaccinated and maintain those records?

11% of Americans don't have government-issued ID. Not "don't have the ability" to get ID but don't have ID. They can get it with ease. Once we hit 89% vaccination rate then we can worry about that.

If that was true, why would voter ID be such a big issue that corporations are boycotting jurisdictions who enact it?
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