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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#521

Post by myrandomcomment »

timr wrote: post #129
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

I have been in Manhattan for the last week with my family. I have seen 10+ free vaccinations locations. If you want to get vaccinated you can, no matter what your means.

Not being vaccinated put the risk on the kids, which is unconscionable.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#522

Post by atomashpolskiy »

timr wrote: post #438
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

One more example: itch in one's throat and nasty suffocating cough that does not stop for an hour. Surprisingly, this might be caused by reflux (without the accompanying stomachache).

I imagine it would be pretty easy for someone not used to dealing with gastritis on a regular basis to attribute such a symptom to "COVID".

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#523

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cm2187 wrote: post #160
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. Vaccinated people spreading the Delta variant amongst each other is not going to do that. Unvaccinated people getting sick will.

Not if they are 20 or already had covid.

> Not if they are 20 or already had covid

We have inconclusive data on the protection past infection affords with respect to the Delta variant. We have decent data showing the mRNA vaccines work. We also have inconclusive but pointed data about the Delta variant being more problematic for younger people [1].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#524

Post by ceilingcorner »

throwitaway1235 wrote: post #308

Does anyone believe this will be expanded to grocery stores, pharmacies and other basic services come fall? My job is already close to pushing mandatory vaccination and I'm trying to decide whether I should pack up my things and leave? 30 year resident and heartbroken.

Probably inevitable, although this fall seems a bit too early. Also probably unenforceable in many areas of the city.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#525

Post by trhway »

thrwwmbkpr wrote: post #507
trhway wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID. vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand. Add to that that since May CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases which don't result in hospitalizations. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of p…

Potentially related - "How major media outlets screwed up the vaccine ‘breakthrough’ story" [1]. Outlines media mis-interpretation of an unfinished, internal CDC presentation last week (roughly lines up with your July 30 story). [1] https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/cdc_date_media_coverage_... I found that while reading daily news from AllSides[2], as recommended in a recent HN thread. I really like it so far. [2]…

Your link is multipage propaganda spin full of media distrust FUD without data, and deja vu - White House tweets blaming the media for wrong coverage of hard CDC data.

Whereis if you compare the CNBC link i posted with the official CDC report linked below you'll find no screwed up nor mis-interpretation on the part of CNBC (though CNBC didn't mention the 69% vaccination coverage and obvious correlation with the observed 74% share of infections). And the CDC report is crystal clear:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

"During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons"

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#527

Post by ch4s3 »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

> mRNA is a new, unknown technology

This is untrue, researchers have been testing various mRNA therapies on people for 30 years, with it being first done in vitro in 1990 then in vivo in 1992 [1]. Lipid nano particles were first used around the same time.

> the vaccine was rushed faster to public access than any other vaccine before

This is only true if you ignore the development of the mRNA vaccine platform for flu, rabies, and zika that predated the pandemic by years. The novel development here was swapping in new protein encoding. If you look at this as a continuation of that process, then it's only a little faster than normal, and a lot of that was due to the FDA switching sequential steps in the process to be parallel.

> We have absolutely no idea if there are any long term side effects of these vaccines.

This isn't a meaningful claim for 2 key reasons. There has never been a vaccine that had serious side effects that did show up shortly after vaccination[2]. The history of mRNA treatments began as an experiment in gene therapy, but has largely ben abandoned because the effects never lasted long enough. As of 2020 this is an ongoing area of research[3]. No one has figure out how to stabilize mRNA so that it has long lasting effects.

> Both candidates Biden and Harris

They're both craven, ignorant politicians, who cares what they said when the other guy was in power.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

[2] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history....

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/

[edit] All that said, I am no pro mandate but seriously you should all voluntarily go get vaccinated IMHO.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#528

Post by heavyset_go »

rajup wrote: post #495
heavyset_go wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the people for whom the vaccine won't work for, or will be less effective for, like anyone on immune system suppressants because of transplants, or some cancer patients/survivors, or those taking immunosuppressants and biologics for things like Crohn's, UC, multiple sclerosis, arthritis, etc.

So these people should be wearing masks then? Sounds reasonable to me, not sure how imposing masks on vaccinated people helps.

It's been a year of this, and you should know by now that masks are meant to prevent people from unknowingly spreading the virus to other people.

From the FDA[1]:

> Q: Do face masks provide protection from coronavirus?

> A: Masks may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others. The CDC has guidance for wearing masks. Wearing a face mask may limit exposure to respiratory droplets and large particles and may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus.

[1] https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#529

Post by camillomiller »

rubicon33 wrote: post #483
timr wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

> Some do not. This one does. I am sure you believe what you are saying, and I am also not doubting that you have some education on the topic, but I have to disagree. Take for example, this study [1] demonstrating significant loss of grey matter in the brain for COVID patients, both hospitalized and non-hospitalized. As our understanding of virology evolves it is becoming more and more clear that the notion of epheme…

Enforcing restrictions that are excessive in order to just keep cases down is in most case even more detrimental to the long-term quality of life of the majority of the population. What so many of the restrictions enthusiasts don’t seem to understand, is the long term mental health impact this upending of society has had on all of us, and especially on the younger generations. I say this as a fully vaccinated individual.

Regarding the specific case, to make my position even more nuanced, I don’t have a specific problem with having to prove vaccination or positive test for indoor dining. Here in Berlin that’s the rule they used when reopening last May, and it never went away. This way, nobody has ever really debated it.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#530

Post by goostavos »

l33tman wrote: post #292
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

4. You already have had COVID-19 and feel the added (minor) protection by 1-2 vaccine shots gets you into more cons than pros.

The forgotten minority :(
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