NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#291

Post by bombela » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #269

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

If you are immunocompromised. Even though vaccinated. You could still catch the virus and be seriously impacted by it for example. The vaccine is not a guaranteed 100% protection for a healthy young person. And the weaker you are, the worse are the odds.

And then you have the possiblity of mutations. The longueur the virus is on circulation. The more likely it is to mutate with worse outcome.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#292

Post by l33tman » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

4. You already have had COVID-19 and feel the added (minor) protection by 1-2 vaccine shots gets you into more cons than pros.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#293

Post by rajin444 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #202

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

"We have no idea of the long term effects" Perhaps you have no idea, but the people closest to this science, including the countless government agencies around the world that have given authorization, have a pretty good idea. The design and length of clinical trials is not arbitrary, but your personal idea of "long term" is arbitrary.

Do we have data on 5, 10 years after usage? I'm fairly certain that there won't be anything either (based on what experts have said), but we should withhold making assertions without data to back it up, right?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#294

Post by belltaco » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #269

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

If the hospitals and emergency centers are full with covid patients, and you have a non-covid emergency, you're fucked.

Imagine trying to get to the hospital and facing lines like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kbNGR7XjrY

The government or the insurance providers are paying for covid care, so it's coming out of your tax money or increasing health insurance premiums for everyone.

You're taking doctors and nurses for granted. Health care providers are burning out faster due to long shifts caused by an overload of covid patients and are quitting. This increases health care costs for everyone and reduces availability.

People having long term health issues decreases productivity, a lot more people might be disabled and file for disability benefits which come out of taxes.

People's quality of life is reduced when their friends and family die.

Lowering population reduces economic opportunity for everyone.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#295

Post by mrtksn » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #269

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

> What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk.

Plenty of risks.

1) You are giving a chance for spreading a vaccine resistant strain. Every time a vaccinated person is exposed to the virus, most likely the immune system would take care of it however there’s a risk that it would contain a vaccine resistant mutation and will spread among vaccinated, creating a vaccine resistant strain.

2) Vaccine protection is not %100, which means people are still at risk, therefore cannot ease measures

3) R0 would be lower in vaccinated groups, meaning a slower spread or complete end of the spread. In mixed groups R0 would be higher which means prolonged or never ending spread.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#296

Post by guntars » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #5

mandmandam wrote: post #2

Privacy watchdogs, data protection groups, and human rights councils have largely condemned these "vaccine passports". To date, I haven't seen their concerns mentioned - mentioned - in any of these pronouncements. I get that there are enough people willing to go along with this that they'll likely stick around for a bit - but another thing I haven't seen is an end game. Corona is in the deer, it's in pets. Are they a…

It seems that the endgame is to keep on pushing tighter and tighter restrictions on certain communities of people, strongly discouraging open debate, leaving dissenters no other option but to physically remove themselves, until only the most compliant remain, forming a tight-knit, ideologically homogenous group.

> certain communities of people

What communities are being targeted? Everyone who leaves their house is affected.

> strongly discouraging open debate

We're debating it here just fine.

> dissenters [..] physically remove themselves

Voluntarily unvaccinated walking COVID vectors? Yes, that's exactly the point.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#297

Post by cyberpsybin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #269

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

Mutations. More dangerous variants. Delta variant came from India where disease ran rampant few months ago.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#298

Post by adamrezich » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

lolc wrote: post #55

drngdds wrote: post #31

Vaccine mandates are good in concept* and will probably spur a lot of the "I'll get it if it's required" or "I'm going to wait and see" people to go ahead and get it. But they're kind of weak as implemented here. Considering that a photo of a vaccine card is considered valid proof (and the guy checking cards at the bar or whatever is only going to spend two seconds looking at it), some enterprising scumbag could prob…

Regarding security: You can get fined over using fake certificates. So most people won't use fakes as long as the incentives are right. There's no need for airtight security here.

fines for not having Your Papers to go out and about in public! imagine presenting this idea to people 10 years ago

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#299

Post by closeparen » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #271

closeparen wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring me to consume a novel virus in order to live my life is morally wrong. You're making me into a test subject for the bats. The whole point of civil society is to solve coordination problems and deliver public goods like sanitation and health. If it can't accomplish something as basic as vaccination then it is blatantly unfit for purpose. Absolutely, jettison it! The truly crazy idea here is that we would ret…

I assume you are for mandatory vaccine of every communicable disease right? Every person should be required to have ebola, flu and every other vaccine before they go to a bar. If you do not support this then you believe in letting viruses circulate in the bars.

You don't need an ebola vaccine because you're not going to encounter ebola at a bar. The few outbreaks which occurred in the US were contained through tracing and isolation.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#300

Post by softwaredoug » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #269

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

1. Many people aren’t or can’t get vaccinated, including kids under 12 or the immuno-compromised.

2. Constant infection causes more mutation of the virus and possible escape vaccine capture.

3. Infections overwhelm public health systems causing issues for people with non Covid health emergencies

4. While it’s very unlikely, you still increase the number of vaccinated people hospitalized for Covid