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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#501

Post by _red »

Uberphallus wrote: post #411
_red wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High vaccination rates will only exert selection pressure on the virus causing new mutation strains to become dominant. How is this not understood? Vaccines should only be used for targeted at-risk population. Everyone else should strive for natural immunity.

> High vaccination rates will only exert selection pressure on the virus causing new mutation strains to become dominant. > How is this not understood? The same way vaccines create selection pressure, so does natural immunity. Letting people get infected instead of vaccinating them actually makes the dice roll much more, as in orders of magnitude more. Just look how most of the variants of concern, and mainly delta,…

>Just get your shot instead of playing armchair epidemiologist.

I've already had covid in 2020 and recently had another antibody test which still showed a strong response...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#502

Post by bichiliad »

desine wrote: post #414
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

If the ultimate goal is saving lives, how much of your daily life are you willing to sacrifice for public health? Willing to forego car ownership? End two day shipping speeds for non essential purchases?

Yes, totally — we are only as healthy and as happy as the least of our neighbors. If I had to forgo two day shipping or driving in order to bring down traffic crashes, improve air quality, etc. that seems like a totally fair trade-off. The alternative doesn't look all that good.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#503

Post by jaywalk »

polynomial wrote: post #496
jaywalk wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. This is demonstrably false if you actually look at hospital admissions.

I'm not meaning to take sides here, but there are very real assertions being made that at the very least vaccination lowers the statistical probability of death to <1%, which is obviously seems like something we can verify with admission and fatality data.

I haven't heard anything to the contrary, so I'll assume that's true. But as far as "serious illness" goes, I'd say it's pretty serious once you're admitted to a hospital.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#504

Post by schmichael »

dataflow wrote: post #417
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

The part that irks me about a vaccine mandate is it being imposed before FDA approval. The FDA isn't confident enough to approve the vaccine yet, yet other parts of the government are (effectively) saying they know better than the FDA? Is it really surprising that people hesitate when they see this? Isn't it kind of alarming to hear a government say, hey, our own scientists haven't approved this, but we want to injec…

The FDA did approve the vaccines under an emergency use authorization. Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without significant deviation from expected outcomes. What do you expect final FDA approval to accomplish?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#505

Post by isleyaardvark »

preinheimer wrote: post #233
timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Completely false. There's several groups that might want the vaccine that can't get it. Including: children and the immuno compromised. 32 kids were hospitalized in one week in Alabama last month. A state with half the population of NYC. https://www.al.com/coronavirus/2021/07/infant-among-children...

Not to mention the adults who want to but can’t take sick time in case they feel side effects.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#506

Post by tastyfreeze »

tzs wrote: post #400
tastyfreeze wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but, there is nobody that is unable to get an ID in the US if they want one.

...if they have sufficient time and money. Many less well off people have neither, especially in states that have purposefully limited the hours of their offices that issue ID and put such offices far from poorer neighborhoods and far from public transit routes.

Here is an exercise for you. Go find somebody that you think might not have sufficient time or money to get an ID and ask them if they have one. Then ask them if they think there were any barriers to them getting an ID.

I bet dollars to donuts you will be surprised by the answer.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#507

Post by thrwwmbkpr »

trhway wrote: post #469
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

>I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID. vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand. Add to that that since May CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases which don't result in hospitalizations. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of p…

Potentially related - "How major media outlets screwed up the vaccine ‘breakthrough’ story" [1]. Outlines media mis-interpretation of an unfinished, internal CDC presentation last week (roughly lines up with your July 30 story).

[1] https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/cdc_date_media_coverage_...

I found that while reading daily news from AllSides[2], as recommended in a recent HN thread. I really like it so far. [2] https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#509

Post by [deleted] »

ok123456 wrote: post #416
tajustice wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ID laws are inherently racist, and have been leveraged by white supremacists for decades to keep POC from enjoying the rights and privileges they're guaranteed under the law. Businesses requiring vaccination IDs are de facto discriminating against POCs and other minorities because POCs and minorities are less likely to have ID, and less likely to be vaccinated.

The coronavirus doesn't discriminate. Edit: Can't reply to the child since it's dead, but for the record, I got my covid vaccinations at an AME church (i.e., black) back in April. Edit 2: >Anecdotal evidence is always useful for bigotry. I went to an AME church (i.e., black) back in April and the church was denied vaccines. No you didn't. > The statistical facts are clear: POCs are much less likely to have access to…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#510

Post by eschulz »

mthoms wrote: post #54
tboyd47 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…

Your rights end when exercising them endangers my life and the lives of my family. That’s also a basic tenet of civil society (see traffic laws for example).

Traffic permit and licensing laws meet a high standard for which there is significant legal precedent. Your statement does not have a legal basis in the US or under Common Law. While we have had health tests to ender the country, we have not had them to go to a public place. We have never required the flu shot to got to a bar or nightclub. I too am not antivax, but I don't think you have the right to require those around you in public places to take a new vaccine that has not even undergone the normal rigors of FDA approval.
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