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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#391

Post by starlust2 »

paganel wrote: post #348
polote wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…

> "zero covid spaces" As a tangent, I wish we would get rid of this "zero covid spaces" mania, makes having a reasonable discussion between those who want to continue our lives as normal as possible given the circumstances (I am one of them) and those who want to get back to an illusory "pre-covid normal" basically impossible. One of my grand-mothers died of tuberculosis about 10 years ago. Imo it's as nasty a death…

The U.S. only has around 600 deaths from TB per year. Covid was 100x more deaths with lockdowns and other restrictions factored in.

Not even remotely the same thing.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#392

Post by Buttons840 »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

My gut feeling is closer to

4. You perceive the government as taking more and more power without ever giving any back.

I don't know if this is true, but that is the reason for my instinctual opposition and I haven't overriden it yet.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#393

Post by tootie »

kian wrote: post #379
bern4444 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as…

In response to 'but its literally no different than having to get a vaccine to travel to certain countries', we literally (as in have a literal - written word - constitution) that explicitly prohibits the prevention of movement between the states in the same way that we do between countries. There is a quite literal, and federally-mandated, difference. You literally aren't even allowed to ask for someone's ID to cros…

Think of it more like a drivers license. Proof that you have passed a written test, driving test and an eye exam. Includes your full name, home address, photo and DOB. The Excelsior Pass has less info than that. And will only be required for entering private property from which people can already be barred entry for arbitrary reasons.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#394

Post by bingohbangoh »

ysavir wrote: post #47
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…

“I will not require you to get vaccinated because that is illegal. Instead, I will make it impossible for you to not get vaccinated. That is allowed.”

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#395

Post by bingohbangoh »

ashtonkem wrote: post #380
clukic wrote: post #197

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib. For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate. These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go…

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school. What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

People know. They know, if anything, because you need to be vaccinated to attend colleges.

The issue is that this vaccine is not FDA approved. A vaccine that provides for only a year is hardly the same as a booster shot which is good for 10 iirc.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#396

Post by da_big_ghey »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #73
da_big_ghey wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have strong opposition on this policy. 1. No particular vaccine concern, have mine. 2. Yes. I am not telling my name and birth day for random person in public but now this is required for many public venue. No more being anonymous in public. 3. I have lowered concern, most people with vaccine have lesser time of it even with breakthrough infection. Or maybe better to say I am past caring. 4. All prior vaccine requi…

Out of curiosity do you refuse to show an ID to the bouncer at a bar to prove that you're over 21? Or when you buy alcohol/tobacco in a grocery store?

I do not buy these things but do not like ideas of having to show ID. No person I know have had difficulty with their obtainment from these requirement.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#397

Post by MattGaiser »

ashtonkem wrote: post #380
clukic wrote: post #197

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib. For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate. These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go…

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school. What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

Is it required or can you just sign a waiver and get out of it for religious/personal/health without a doctor reasons? Or is the documentation required easily forgeable?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#398

Post by heavyset_go »

pengaru wrote: post #368
ryandrake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a family member who, despite acknowledging that seat belts work and save lives, refuses to wear his seat belt purely out of petty spite "because I'm not gonna let the tyrannical government tell me what to do!" This endless conversation about vaccines is feeling more and more like that. Orthodox Individualism has become a religion.

Except not wearing a seatbelt harms noone but yourself, and frankly it's up to the individual if they value surviving a car accident. I've had police tell me the rationalization for seatbelt laws is by minimizing ambulance use in crashes, it saves the lives of others and reduces traffic congestion. This is the reasoning put forth for making not wearing a seatbelt a ticketable offense. Last I checked emergency service…

Seatbelts prevent you from becoming a several hundred pound projectile that can injure or kill other people in and outside of your car.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#399

Post by paganel »

starlust2 wrote: post #391
paganel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "zero covid spaces" As a tangent, I wish we would get rid of this "zero covid spaces" mania, makes having a reasonable discussion between those who want to continue our lives as normal as possible given the circumstances (I am one of them) and those who want to get back to an illusory "pre-covid normal" basically impossible. One of my grand-mothers died of tuberculosis about 10 years ago. Imo it's as nasty a death…

The U.S. only has around 600 deaths from TB per year. Covid was 100x more deaths with lockdowns and other restrictions factored in. Not even remotely the same thing.

Sorry that I wasn't clear, I'm not from the US, I know this is an US-article but I see that push to get to zero covid cases in many places, no matter the continent.

Probably covid deaths will trickle down to 500-600 per year in places like the US in a few years, a combination of higher access to vaccines and better health facilities, and the number will remain high in places like India/SE Asia, just like it now happens with TB.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#400

Post by tzs »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #176
gadders wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discriminates against the same parts of the population that are unable to get an ID to be able to vote. I would think a vaccine passport would need some other form of ID first so it can be tied to a particular person.

Off topic but, there is nobody that is unable to get an ID in the US if they want one.

...if they have sufficient time and money. Many less well off people have neither, especially in states that have purposefully limited the hours of their offices that issue ID and put such offices far from poorer neighborhoods and far from public transit routes.
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