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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#421

Post by ysavir »

ashtonkem wrote: post #350
ysavir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…

It’s a bit like cars. Own whatever you want, but the state has a say in what is and is not allowed on the roads they built and maintain.

That's a great example! Thanks, I'm going to use this.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#422

Post by makomk »

bart_spoon wrote: post #247
tboyd47 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…

So your hang up is the FDA giving full approval? Because recent reports indicate that will likely be happening for the Pfizer vaccine next month. Somehow I think there will be a major shifting of goalposts by the anti-vax camp around that time.

Recent reports indicate that the reason it's getting FDA approval so soon is not because of any specific scientific evidence or the standard FDA process, but instead it's being approved early as a deliberate political tactic to undermine this argument used by people who don't trust the vaccines: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/04/fda-approval-pfizer...

I don't think it's the "anti-vax camp" who's behind the major shifting of the goalposts here.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#423

Post by rubicon33 »

desine wrote: post #414
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

If the ultimate goal is saving lives, how much of your daily life are you willing to sacrifice for public health? Willing to forego car ownership? End two day shipping speeds for non essential purchases?

I don't think the ultimate goal should be saving lives. It should be avoiding the spread of COVID. Saving lives would just be a side effect of lower COVID cases (and vaccination).

I'm all for re-opening businesses and promoting vaccinations. We have to get back to living our lives. I'm just tired of the idea people seem to have that it's entirely about lives.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#424

Post by zepto »

q3k wrote: post #41
zepto wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compulsory injection with compounds that are not medically approved because they haven’t been tested to accepted standards is a good thing? For what it’s worth, I’m vaccinated and wear a mask in every public encounter until I’ve discussed the risks with whoever I am dealing with whether required to or not. However I strongly disagree with mandatory medical treatment of any kind. I could imagine a law for emergency va…

> Compulsory injection with compounds that are not medically approved because they haven’t been tested to accepted standards is a good thing? First, that's not what the GP said. It's also not what I'm saying. Second, where I live the vaccine I got [1] went through a well-defined process designed explicitly to safely but swiftly approve medicine for emergency use, eg. during pandemics [2]. [1] - https://www.ema.europa…

> compulsory vaccination is a thing

You said this, and we are referring to a vaccine that is not FDA approved.

‘Well defined’ doesn’t mean anything. The vaccines have not been approved according to normal medical standards.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#425

Post by ok123456 »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #122
minikites wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Orthodox Individualism has become a religion. Over the last 40-some years, Conservatives and Republicans have been incredibly successful at destroying the idea of government which is effective and serves the public. The result is that oppositional defiance and grievance politics are all we have left.

Over the past 40 years elected officials have done a great job of passing legislation that shows they are incompetent, corrupt, and have no ones best interested except their own and will use any excuse to increase their control over people.

They haven't passed any meaningful legislation since The New Deal.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#426

Post by throwaway0a5e »

Clubber wrote: post #404
swayvil wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We settled this point at Nuremburg. Involuntary experimental medical procedures are what the bad guys do.

Don't tell the CIA that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio...

"CIA bad!" is pretty common trope around here. I think many would consider the CIA, in part or whole, to be a subset of the bad guys.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#427

Post by 15155 »

sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

"Precious resources" - the narrative was that the resources _were_ precious and we needed "two weeks to slow the spread."

Why are these resources somehow "precious" two years later? Where was the ventilator production? Staffing?

If this were such a serious issue, what have we been doing?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#428

Post by 0xB31B1B »

timr wrote: post #347
mcguire wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals. " That would be false. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp which points to https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/ And then there's https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

We have never required anything like this to go to a restaurant . Or the gym. Or the beach. This is a huge new step. Pointing out that children must be vaccinated against viruses that disproportionately harm children in order to participate in public education is true, but irrelevant to the question. Pointing out that we require certain vaccinations of immigrants is true, but irrelevant to the question. (Not for noth…

this just isn't remotely true. There is a long history in the US of cities and sub national governments requiring vaccination, limiting the things the unvaccinated can participate in, and fining people who refuse to be vaccinated. https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court There is a long history of case law establishing the rights of subnational US governments to act in the interests of their citizens in protecting public health.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#429

Post by [deleted] »

ok123456 wrote: post #416
tajustice wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ID laws are inherently racist, and have been leveraged by white supremacists for decades to keep POC from enjoying the rights and privileges they're guaranteed under the law. Businesses requiring vaccination IDs are de facto discriminating against POCs and other minorities because POCs and minorities are less likely to have ID, and less likely to be vaccinated.

The coronavirus doesn't discriminate. Edit: Can't reply to the child since it's dead, but for the record, I got my covid vaccinations at an AME church (i.e., black) back in April. Edit 2: >Anecdotal evidence is always useful for bigotry. I went to an AME church (i.e., black) back in April and the church was denied vaccines. No you didn't. > The statistical facts are clear: POCs are much less likely to have access to…

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#430

Post by zepto »

oezi wrote: post #183
zepto wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compulsory injection with compounds that are not medically approved because they haven’t been tested to accepted standards is a good thing? For what it’s worth, I’m vaccinated and wear a mask in every public encounter until I’ve discussed the risks with whoever I am dealing with whether required to or not. However I strongly disagree with mandatory medical treatment of any kind. I could imagine a law for emergency va…

Hundreds of million of people is pretty good testing by now. Consider that they caught the blood clots with AstraZeneka which is less than 1 in 100,000. The vigilance systems works very well.

The ‘vigilance system’ has nothing to say about long term complications yet, hasn’t led to FDA approval, and is neither an accepted nor approved way to test vaccine safety.
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