My small revenge on Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#421

Post by giantrobot » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

Toutouxc wrote: post #45

bloniac wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all got beaten because Apple and google thrashed them in all the ways that mattered.

Actually Windows Phone was pretty much killed by Microsoft's lack of marketing, developer incentives and general incompetence, the OSes (7 and 8 mainly, 10 was weird) were incredibly smooth, fast and well designed. For a short while (in between most popular apps gaining WP support and then dropping it) it was IMO the best mobile experience available. You could get a dirt-cheap low-end phone like the Lumia 520 and it…

I don't remember any WP8 phones actually being a good experience. The high end Lumias had good cameras...once the camera app eventually launched. The low end Lumias were absolutely terrible in every respect. They were dirt cheap because they were garbage. The App Store was a joke and what little software it had was awful.

The Metro/Modern/Whatever UI looked good in screen shots. In actual use the tiles just ate up a lot of screen real estate and rarely refreshed their content when expected. The UI inside apps was equally brain dead with touch elements often lacking borders. So you'd have to hope you aimed your finger perfectly on an icon. Because the UI could become unresponsive for unexpected reasons, especially on garbage phones, even if you hit an element it wasn't clear if the app was actually responding.

Windows Phone 8 and up was a dumpster fire. The highest end phones were just okay and didn't really hold a candle to the Apple and Android flagships of the time.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#422

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #416

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no reason for you to act so smug. I'm not smug. I'm battle-scarred. I'll lay odds that I've had a lot more rejections than you have, and probably gotten a lot more pissed off at Apple. Being an experienced Apple developer (since 1986), means that I have been incandescent with rage at Apple -many times. All of us have. Apple can be a real pain to work with. I still develop for Apple, but I am not a "fanboi.…

> In a couple of cases, I have been able to get people on the horn (PROTIP: Don't be calling them "smug," and be polite, even though you want to throttle them), where they have explained the issue. > That "smugness" is actually a deliberate part of their brand. I wasn't calling Apple smug, though? I was calling your comment smug, because of 1. implying it's unreasonable to say "kafkaesque" despite Apple setting up a…

> But don't be mean to someone that doesn't know that.

I wasn't being mean, and I apologize for a poor choice of words.

I love developing Apple software, and heartily support you in your endeavors. Please consider me an ally.

I sincerely wish you luck, but Apple can definitely be ... interesting to work with.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#423

Post by jjav » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

nyuszika7h wrote: post #171

fmajid wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget in your threat model that Apple can cancel your account at any time for any reason whatsoever. They've even done it to security researchers using Apple's own bug bounty program. If that happens, you are stranded with those accounts effectively inaccessible to you forever. https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/20/man-sues-apple-fo...

So? Google can also cancel your account at any time for any reason whatsoever, and good luck getting it back unless you're a celebrity with connections or manage to make a big enough fuss about it on social media. Using the same logic, you should not use Gmail then.

> So? Google can also cancel your account at any time for any reason whatsoever

Right, that's why. Don't ever use "sign in with XXX" for any value of XXX, whether apple or google. Any of them can erase you off their site on a whim and you've lost all unrelated accounts where you made the mistake to "sign in with XXX".

Create accounts with your own email, control your future destiny.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#424

Post by jjav » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #107

pjerem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Apple's SSO may not be eternal but it's also very unlikely to disappear overnight. If it is indeed going to be phased out you will have advance notice of this and a transition period. I agree that in a perfect world you'd provide your real email address and solve this problem. But developers and companies have repeatedly proven themselves to not be trustworthy and the majority will misuse any contact details for spam…

> Apple's SSO may not be eternal but it's also very unlikely to disappear overnight. If it is indeed going to be phased out you will have advance notice of this and a transition period.

They may well offer notice and time when they cancel the service in some future.

They won't offer any of that if they happen to erase your account just because though, as has happened to many people.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#425

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #422

Dylan16807 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a couple of cases, I have been able to get people on the horn (PROTIP: Don't be calling them "smug," and be polite, even though you want to throttle them), where they have explained the issue. > That "smugness" is actually a deliberate part of their brand. I wasn't calling Apple smug, though? I was calling your comment smug, because of 1. implying it's unreasonable to say "kafkaesque" despite Apple setting up a…

> But don't be mean to someone that doesn't know that. I wasn't being mean, and I apologize for a poor choice of words. I love developing Apple software, and heartily support you in your endeavors. Please consider me an ally. I sincerely wish you luck, but Apple can definitely be ... interesting to work with.

I've never developed anything for Apple but I do thank you for that and hope the person having the problem can resolve things quickly.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#426

Post by pier25 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #415

pier25 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is extremely restrictive to developers Restrictive is not the appropriate word. For example, this whole forcing devs to use "sign in with Apple" is not about imposing restrictions as you can decide to not use a third party sign in (on a new app). Apple is saying "hey if your users can sign in with Facebook they should be able to sign in with Apple, we want a piece of the pie". Some iOS users are happy about t…

What's the "pie"? FB makes money off their data. Apple seems to be providing me the service I paid for. If they made it optional, a large percentage of apps would force you to use Google/FB to login. That's not acceptable to me. One of the major reasons I give Apple money is to because they can stand up against the privacy invading FB/Google and I, as an individual, cannot. So they are very much doing what I want in…

> What's the "pie"?

It's explained in my previous comment.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#427

Post by qeternity » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:38 PM UTC

wayneftw wrote: post #257

qeternity wrote: post #125

Anyone who puts privacy in quotes has totally lost the plot. Is it really so inconceivable to some two-bit developer that I absolutely do trust Apple more than I trust them? Hell, I trust Apple more than I trust Facebook and Google. Apple ID is my go to SSO these days. Is Apple perfect? No. But this is a game of lesser of evils.

I think it's adorable that anyone actually believes Apple is concerned with user privacy. Sorry to burst your bubble but you can read all about how hypocritical Apple is about your privacy right here on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24109695

It’s really adorable to watch people embarrass themselves by not reading/comprehending the entire comment.

As I said: lesser of evils. I don’t care if Apple truly cares about privacy. I just care whether they will trample on it less than the others will, which I do believe, not because they care but because it might be profitable for them.

But good attempt, kiddo. You’ll get em next time.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#428

Post by qeternity » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:45 PM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #344

djrogers wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can sign up with your email address You’re still missing it - we don’t trust YOU with our email address . Before today we didn’t know who you are or what you stand for, and we didn’t trust you with our email address. After today, I’m sure I wouldn’t trust you with my private relay address, as you clearly care very little about your users.

On the contrary, I care very much about my users. Precisely because of this I am campaigning against Apple because they seek to extend their powers beyond reasonable measure. It is in everyone's interest, mine and the interest of my users, that Apple doesn't get to dictate us what we can and cannot do on their platform. But even worse is that Apple gets to dictate to us what we MUST do, which is the case in contentio…

> I get it, you trust Apple. But are you Apple?

I’m not you either, yet you ask me to trust you.

Please, just listen, because you’re clearly not getting it. Nobody knows you or trusts you. Many people, including myself, trust Apple far more than we trust you. This is because Apple has tens of billions of dollars in revenue from hardware sales. Selling some email addresses is going to bring a relatively paltry amount. I can’t say for certain they wouldn’t do it, but it would be really dumb. You on the other hand are much more likely to violate your users privacy because you don’t have another revenue stream at risk.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#429

Post by handrous » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

p2t2p wrote: post #319

collaborative wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails: 1 - Activation email with activation code to ensure the person actually owns the email address (non-OAUTH sign-up) 2 - Password recovery for when they have forgotten their password. Yes, a user doesn't need this with OAUTH but sometimes they will have forgotten that they used OAUTH to start with and need to si…

> Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails I don't care. I don't trust you. I don't trust any of modern devs, I see every other new shiny crap on the internet only as an attempt to extort me of data and/or money (subscription) now. Before Apple introduced that feature I was using email aliases in my Fastmail. Need to register in new service - go to Fa…

I think some smaller-time devs don't appreciate that if they "win" against Apple and make them significantly loosen restrictions, users' wallets will tighten, especially for small developers and companies that no-one's heard of. Keeping the App Store low-friction, low-risk, and UX consistent, is a huge benefit for those kinds of devs (the ones selling software or subscriptions, anyway).

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#430

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #425

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But don't be mean to someone that doesn't know that. I wasn't being mean, and I apologize for a poor choice of words. I love developing Apple software, and heartily support you in your endeavors. Please consider me an ally. I sincerely wish you luck, but Apple can definitely be ... interesting to work with.

I've never developed anything for Apple but I do thank you for that and hope the person having the problem can resolve things quickly.

Then I'd gently suggest doing a bit of research on what type of person I am, before immediately assuming that I am being mean. I'm a pretty decent chap.

I understand that you are one of the most senior members of this community, and I certainly appreciate the work that y'all have done, trying to keep this from turning into an ugly community.

I really (truly) appreciate the decorum here, and sincerely do my best to respect that. It is my goal to be a positive, contributing member here. I may be mistaken, but I do believe that I have some contributions to make, here.

I may come across as a stuffy old fart, but that is a deliberate departure from my earlier days, when I was ... not that way.