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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#321

Post by heavyset_go »

cm2187 wrote: post #272
heavyset_go wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC) According to NYC.gov[1], there have been about 980k cases of COVID in a city with a population of over 8 million. About 12% of the population has had COVID. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-totals.pag...

That's cases. There was hardly any testing during the first wave, which hit NY particularly. The numbers are likely significantly higher.

Yes, it is probably higher. The 980k figure also counts over 200k probable cases and probable deaths, so some of the untested are baked into the total figure.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#322

Post by ajsnigrutin »

bombela wrote: post #291
srcreigh wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

If you are immunocompromised. Even though vaccinated. You could still catch the virus and be seriously impacted by it for example. The vaccine is not a guaranteed 100% protection for a healthy young person. And the weaker you are, the worse are the odds. And then you have the possiblity of mutations. The longueur the virus is on circulation. The more likely it is to mutate with worse outcome.

But if you're immunocompromised, you're fscked anyways, and should stay at home, because a lot of vaccinated people (~30+% with astrazeneca) can still get it, and even stay asymptomatic (so they spread it, but don't even know it, and noone tests them, because they're vaccinated).

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#323

Post by freewizard »

Appreciate NYC finding ways to push up vax% but not sure what to say about the app they are promoting.

Just checked this "NYC COVID Safe" app[1] which is claimed to be "Key to NYC". All it does is taking and storing a photo on the phone. It obviously meant to be CDC paper card, but there seems no validation, client side or server side. (update it does phone home for some apparently analytics event like onboard, added card, etc)

In contrast the NYS Excelsior Pass app [2] at least did some check on server side on personal information like name/DOB and place/date of vax before generate a QR code. Also there's another app for business side to verify the consumers' generated QR. It may not be 100% perfect but at least did some diligence.

[1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nyc-covid-safe/id1565213506

[2] https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/excelsior-pass

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#324

Post by bwship »

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

This is a really interesting point. And I felt the same exact way, but over the past few weeks, there seems to be more and more people on HN that are against all this government overreach. So, I personally, am starting to feel better that there are many more that feel like I do than I thought.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#325

Post by bart_spoon »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158
threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

FDA approval for Pfizer is expected in a matter of weeks.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#326

Post by cwkoss »

trident5000 wrote: post #232
clukic wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American). If cases keep rising I don't see any reason why hospitalizations and deaths won't follow. Unless the delta variant is less dangerous or treatments have improved tremendously. So, the options are 1)Stop indoor dining 2)Accept the public health implications or 3) Require…

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

It's an infectious disease. This isn't an issue of "you can risk your own life and health" - unvaccinated people are risking the lives of many others in their communities.

You can't kill your neighbor's grandmother by bungee jumping.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#327

Post by throwitaway1235 »

JoshTko wrote: post #235
imwillofficial wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seriously needs a cite. First time I've heard this claim.

You need a citation to understand which part? That poor people most often have service jobs such as retail or food service? That service jobs are higher risk for Covid transmission than white collar jobs? Or that poor people have few resources to address health issues if they get Covid?

I'm not a dev, I just like tech stuff. I say this because I actually work with lower middle class Black and Brown people, though I'm White and lower middle class.

Let me explain something to you guys, we worked through each "wave" and didn't really care. We were not "forced" to work. It was never a big deal.

The whole "woe is the working class during Covid" was just an excuse for neurotic professional class workers to WFH.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#328

Post by NonContro »

stickfigure wrote: post #91
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

You're ignoring that a significant portion of #2 have already got resistance via infection. There is no point whatsoever for those people to get vaccinated, apart from padding out the pockets of Big Pharma.

With the scale of vaccinations that we already have, COVID is firmly in the realm of influenza in terms of potential future deathtoll. In fact, for much of this year the UK had higher influenza deaths than COVID deaths:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/22/flu-pneumonia-de...

Why don't we pressure people to get influenza vaccines yearly?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#329

Post by gopalv »

srcreigh wrote: post #269
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

> What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk.

Yet

> The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. Is there any evidence for that though?

Every human with covid is a variant factory. Even the vaccinated are.

And every variant is a new fire which could burst out again - there was a comment that "Everytime we open up, there's a new variant", as if the variant spike was somehow unrelated to the opening up.

This isn't theory.

We should somewhat be thankful that vaccines work with Delta, because if the variant on the uptick was the Gamma variant, the acquired immunity wasn't as effective at preventing a severe disease [1].

If the virus isn't eradicated, then it will keep making comebacks as newly infected people provide more opportunities for more "successful" variants.

Also kids, don't forget kids. Some of them are babies.

[1] - https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1427_article

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#330

Post by ashtonkem »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

It’s also worth pointing out that this isn’t exactly a new policy. Most forms of education from kindergarten through college requires proof of various vaccines. I remember having to get a whole slew of boosters at 18 because we couldn’t find the old records in order to go to college.

You’d think that after a pandemic has killed 600,000 of our fellow citizens we’d be able to come together and simply repeat as adults what we do for most children, but alas we live in a deeply unserious time.

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