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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#281

Post by omegaworks »

srcreigh wrote: post #269
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

> What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves?

Uncontrolled spread in the unvaccinated puts others that can not produce an immune response at risk.

>Vaccinated people aren't at risk.

This is false, fully vaccinated people in my network have been hospitalized.

>Is there any evidence for that though?

Reproduction and mutation in the infected is the primary mechanism by which variants develop.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#282

Post by textgel »

pklausler wrote: post #242
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be opposed to a policy requiring everyone to jog three miles every day? Jogging is good for your health, its side effects are minor and benefits to the society in whole will be tremendous.

If I choose to stop running, I'm not increasing a health risk for others. Sloth is not contagious.

You're potentially taking up a hospital bed at some point that could be used for someone else.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#283

Post by _-david-_ »

jstanley wrote: post #216
tastyfreeze wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but, there is nobody that is unable to get an ID in the US if they want one.

I don't actually know, but it seems unlikely that illegal immigrants can get an ID from the government?

Since they are here illegally they are not even supposed to be here so it doesn't seem like an issue.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#284

Post by crazygringo »

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

What are you talking about? The vast majority of comments here seem to be against this policy.

So how does that make you a tiny minority on HN?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#285

Post by Miner49er »

Daishiman wrote: post #168
stickfigure wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so. I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this. While vaccinated people are fair…

> I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so.

Mutations can happen anywhere in the world. To reduce the odds of mutations, we need to vaccinate as many people as we can globally. Our efforts would be much better spent getting vaccines in the hands of people in other countries that are very willing to take it.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#286

Post by NonContro »

heavyset_go wrote: post #260
cm2187 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

> For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC) According to NYC.gov[1], there have been about 980k cases of COVID in a city with a population of over 8 million. About 12% of the population has had COVID. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-totals.pag...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7...

Seroprevalence has been measured at 74% for Ultra-Orthodox Jewish populations in the UK.

Its not a surprise that ethnic and religious minorities are anti-vaxx - many of them already had COVID.

I'm anti-mandatory vaccinations for the same reason, as a COVID survivor. All the evidence is showing that this natural immunity is superior to vaccines, but I'm treated like a second-class citizen.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#287

Post by bwship »

asdff wrote: post #192
bwship wrote: post #64

Glad I left LA last September. I can't believe NYC is going even more extreme than there, but they are. The good news, is my home purchase down here in Charleston is up 10% in only 3 months. This ridiculousness in CCP NYC will only help ensure my home price goes through the roof. So, yes, if you want to live in a place that respects your right to choose what you do with your body and your life, come on down south. Ju…

> if you want to live in a place that respects your right to choose what you do with your body and your life, come on down south Unless you are a pregnant woman you mean!

100 out of 100 unaborted babies, when polled, were happy they weren't killed while living in the womb.

[Edit] - sorry /s

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#288

Post by bart_spoon »

rajin444 wrote: post #252
Daishiman wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so. I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this. While vaccinated people are fair…

> I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice Why are you ok with using this argument for covid, but not smoking / obesity / football / etc.? The principle is sound, but the selective application is not.

Who says they aren’t? I think there are some very good arguments to be made about how society could collectively benefit by not subsidizing activities like these through insured healthcare.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#289

Post by standardUser »

trident5000 wrote: post #232
clukic wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American). If cases keep rising I don't see any reason why hospitalizations and deaths won't follow. Unless the delta variant is less dangerous or treatments have improved tremendously. So, the options are 1)Stop indoor dining 2)Accept the public health implications or 3) Require…

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

Primarily because of the threat to our healthcare system, but also because of those with high risk of breakthrough infection and those who cannot be vaccinated. I find it a little hard to believe that anyone who has lived through this pandemic does not understand this.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#290

Post by ajsnigrutin »

srcreigh wrote: post #269
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

> The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. Is there any evidence for that though?

Considering that also vacinated people get covid, this doesn't help at all, and since they're mostly asymptomatic, they can even spread it more.

Otherwise, I agree... vaccines are available for everyone, if you want to risk it, it's your risk to take.

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