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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#251

Post by mbostleman »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

This is one that I think you missed that I have heard a lot:

4. You view this as the state being paternalistic to protect the unvaccinated when, in fact, if in August of 2021 you have not yet been vaccinated, you are almost certainly making a personal risk management decision and, as such, should be prepared for the consequences to not only yourself, but others like you (unvaccinated).

This view also seems to be predicated on the idea that the vaccinated are largely unaffected by the spread amongst the unvaccinated. To what degree this is true, I don't know. It's hard to keep up with the evolving data and narratives.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#252

Post by rajin444 »

Daishiman wrote: post #168
stickfigure wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so. I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this. While vaccinated people are fair…

> I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice

Why are you ok with using this argument for covid, but not smoking / obesity / football / etc.? The principle is sound, but the selective application is not.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#253

Post by unethical_ban »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Here is my take: anyone who wants the vaccine can get it. If there are adults who can't, perhaps we need a law to grant paid time off for anyone who doesn't have it, specifically to allow them time to get the vaccine. There doesn't seem to be evidence that children are at a high risk of health issues due to the virus.

So in America after 8 months, most people who want the vaccine have it. Those who have it are incredibly safe, though not completely.

My question is this: when do we admit that in the US, we can go back to normal? At this point, i do see it like the flu or any other moderate respiratory illness. There is a risk, and we mitigated it.

If someone wants to wear a mask, okay. If a business or hospital wants to mandate masks, fine. But at this point, the unvaccinated in this country have chosen to ride without a helmet. So long as the health system doesn't collapse, that is on them, as it has always been.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#254

Post by dotcommand »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny.

Because it's highly tyrannical? Odd how cavalier you are about this.

Nevermind that you have a right to privacy when it comes to health matters, this also forces you to carry "ID" pretty much everywhere.

Also, all tyrannies a born to "protect you".

> Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy.

I don't think that's what you are interested in. You wouldn't have started off your comment that way if you did.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#255

Post by grllierg »

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

This is real.

There has been a total invasion of commies to HN over the past decade. I don't know if it's the schools to blame or what but something has definitely flipped.

Hackers, as a demographic used to be hard-core libertarian (not necessarily a party member).

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#256

Post by bob33212 »

slumdev wrote: post #179
bob33212 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than requiring people to wear shoes in specific locations? Some people prefer not to wear shoes, but for the legal liability and the risk of injury many locations require shoes. Don't go to those places if you feel strongly about not getting the vaccine or wearing shoes

Shoes don't have systemic side effects.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/1998/cpsc-nike-announce-recall-...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#257

Post by bob33212 »

cm2187 wrote: post #186
bob33212 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than requiring people to wear shoes in specific locations? Some people prefer not to wear shoes, but for the legal liability and the risk of injury many locations require shoes. Don't go to those places if you feel strongly about not getting the vaccine or wearing shoes

I got sick like a dog for a day after my first dose, and had a pain in the arm for a week after my second dose. You can't compare injecting a pathogen in someone's body to wearing clothes.

Tell that to the people who were injured by Nike. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/1998/cpsc-nike-announce-recall-...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#258

Post by trident5000 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #56
polote wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…

But we're okay requiring masks, and we're okay putting the onus on businesses to enforce that . I'd much rather enforce vaccinations than masks.

Or you could...require neither at this point in time.

If you're worried about covid then get the vaccination. For people who want to take a risk, let them do it.

I have the vaccine so why do I care if Im around people that have covid? We believe in science right?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#259

Post by mrfusion »

threatofrain wrote: post #120
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #39

To preface: I got the vaccine months ago (as soon as I had access), I'm a big believer in vaccines. With that being said, this policy doesn't sit well with me. None of the currently available vaccines in the US are FDA approved. Of course, a lot of people have received those vaccines, but I also don't necessarily fault individuals for feeling hesitant (the nuance here is that I think people ought to get the vaccine).…

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

For one thing those are policies that were carefully developed over decades not in a few weeks in the middle of a mass panic.

Also those policies usually have religious and medical exemptions.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#260

Post by heavyset_go »

cm2187 wrote: post #152
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

> For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC)

According to NYC.gov[1], there have been about 980k cases of COVID in a city with a population of over 8 million. About 12% of the population has had COVID.

[1] https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-totals.pag...

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