Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#251

Post by lizknope » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #220

lizknope wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People I know look at restaurant workers and retail store employees as the people you say "You go to college so you don't end up like them." I would never say that about mechanics, plumbers, and HVAC technicians. They have skills that I respect and value. I often ask them what was wrong and their analytic and problem solving skills often impress me. I got a new HVAC system with a 2 stage compressor. Everything was wo…

> People I know look at restaurant workers and retail store employees as the people you say "You go to college so you don't end up like them." That certainly happens even more often, but within that statement is also an implication that one must go to college to avoid that kind of work. And why is that kind of work so bad? Mostly because they have to deal with people who treat them like garbage because they think so…

Well I don't treat them like garbage. I treat them like human beings but sometimes I wonder about how a 40 year old person ended up working in a fast food place.

I know there are lots of reasons and many of them are outside of the control of the person.

I should really change my statement to "Learn some skills whether a 4 year university degree or technical / vocational / community college so you don't end up working fast food or retail."

Why is that work so bad? The low pay is the main reason. You can learn the skills required in a few hours or days. I feel like their managers and employers treat them worse than the customers.

I am absolutely in favor for more education and financial assistance for higher education. The low end jobs are the first to be automated away. Fast food and warehouse robots are going to get more popular and I already use the self checkout line 80% of the time.

Jobs for people without specialized skills are going to get rarer in the future.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#252

Post by rednerrus » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #78

pmoriarty wrote: post #7

When I was considering going to law school I learned some sobering facts: - something like 75% of lawyers would not recommend their children go in to law - there is a high rate of burnout among lawyers - while the public perception is that lawyers are extremely high paid, that's only the case some elite lawyers that went to elite schools and work for elite firms[1] For someone like me, who doesn't just want to help t…

Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…

The average lawyer salary in the US is $144,230. That seems pretty low for the time and money it costs to get through law school.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#253

Post by deelowe » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #238

giantg2 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a sedentary life at a keyboard could leave one in poor health. Every job has its tradeoffs. I would argue that a job with physical activity is better overall - I'd take joint replacement over heart surgery or diabetes.

Why so many downvotes?

Because the vast majority of factory work is not backbreaking labor. It typically involves running machines, taking QC measurements, performing maintenance, manning estops, 5s etc. Yes, there are days that suck and they can be exhausting, but most factories don't have days like that very often. Everyone knows the ones that do and it's best to avoid those plants.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#254

Post by ahahahahah » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

JCM9 wrote: post #46

When I was growing up there was this idea that the best of the best became doctors (physicians) and lawyers; and that these were well paid careers. Today that’s broadly no longer the case. Both professions certainly have a top tier that earns a lot (top firm partner, top specialist surgeon) that does very well but the vast majority in both professions aren’t particularly well paid and also are no longer attracting th…

> A savvy tradesman these days (e.g. Plumber) can easily make more than most lawyers and even many physicians. I’ve cited that a lot when giving career advice to those being pressured into a college degree when it’s probably not the right fit for them.

Sure. A savvy football player can make more than most lawyers and many physicians, too. It's risky to make life decisions like this hoping that you'll be at the very top of the range for a particular profession. The vast majority of plumbers make less than even the median starting salary of lawyers in private firms.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#255

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

deelowe wrote: post #253

giantg2 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so many downvotes?

Because the vast majority of factory work is not backbreaking labor. It typically involves running machines, taking QC measurements, performing maintenance, manning estops, 5s etc. Yes, there are days that suck and they can be exhausting, but most factories don't have days like that very often. Everyone knows the ones that do and it's best to avoid those plants.

So why wouldn't people downvote the person who said the work will destroy your body, or the one who said you can't sit down?

I never said factory work is backbreaking. It can vary greatly by industry, but is generally more active than an software dev job but harder on knees and such. Yes, there are some manufacturing jobs that you just sit at a machine, but many of the machines still need someone to load them, reset them, etc.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#256

Post by runbathtime » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

We need more law students who aren't on some social justice cause.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#257

Post by dang » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

runbathtime wrote: post #256

We need more law students who aren't on some social justice cause.

Please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN or we'll have to ban you. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideological flavor you favor.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#258

Post by runbathtime » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #257

runbathtime wrote: post #256

We need more law students who aren't on some social justice cause.

Please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN or we'll have to ban you. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideological flavor you favor. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ok, it would be nice if you banned the comments from the other side of the ideological spectrum, to be consistent.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#259

Post by xphilter » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

junipertea wrote: post #202

xphilter wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of folks earning “high five figures” don’t have to waste three years on dubious education at a cost of $50k per year (not including debt for living expenses because you can’t work your first year at all). So you’re right, high five figures could be a great salary if you’re a manager of a target and didn’t go to law school, but it’s a bad salary if you had to go to law school to get it.

There are a lot of people with 4 year graduate degrees (with same cost) that earn less.

Right. And those are bad too.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#260

Post by anotherman554 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

flavius29663 wrote: post #169

xphilter wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, this comment is wrong in so many places. “High five figures” is not a lot of money considering the opportunity cost (and actual cost of a law degree) (7 years and likely $200,000 all in). The 1 in 4 figure is not close to right either—it’s typically fewer than 1 in 10 get the actually high paying jobs outside of t-14 schools. And I’m glad commenter likes the grind, but most lawyers that I’ve worked with…

I don't see how high 5 figures is not high salary. 100k is literally double the average salary for the US, and 3 times the median wage. And a lot of people earning the median are also deep in student debt. If earning 3 times the median is not good money, maybe your view of what "good money" means something else. The lawyer median wage is 125k, and the 75 percentile is 186k. I consider 186k to be a high wage, it's 6 t…

There's a problem with your post: you linked to "median lawyer pay" but many graduates will not get lawyer jobs. Median lawyer pay doesn't include folks with a law degree who went back to whatever they were doing before law school.