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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#311

Post by djrogers »

collaborative wrote: post #164
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, shame on Apple for protecting their user’s privacy. So evil of them to not allow 3rd party developers to harvest user’s e-mail addresses for no reason whatsoever.

No reason whatsoever != password recovery At the end of the day you've made your choice. You believe the reason Apple does this is to protect your privacy. You can't see that they want to close you in and make sure they are the only contact you ever have with anyone. This is to get your $. You're in fact paying a premium because they artificially inflate the price of every software you buy (think fees) I don't "harve…

> No reason whatsoever != password recovery

You can keep trumpeting this, but as long as Sign in With Apple still works for password recovery (it does), then this is a straw man.

I don’t know you personally. Maybe you had a bad day, maybe you were still pissed about Google removing your app (wonder what that was about), maybe you just really love email addresses.

I don’t know why you did this, but your choice to punish apple users, to mislead them with that pop-up (it implies that it can’t be done, not that you chose not to implement 5 lines of code for personal reasons), and then chose to write a completely tone-deaf blog post about it, all tell me you are likely one of those devs I can’t trust. So I won’t.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#312

Post by collaborative »

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #274
wayneftw wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...people like the author who are clearly intent on using this information to sell me stuff I don't want. Where was that made clear? My best guess is when the author said: > We are denied customer interaction, freedom to offer any non-Apple payment methods, etc. For example, I am absolutely sure that Groups would have had loads of more IAPs had I been allowed to offer Paypal on top of Apple Pay and what not. Offeri…

> Where was that made clear? The post appears to be a thinly veiled attempt to cajole people into giving app developers access to their email inboxes as a general rule by throwing insults at Apple for daring to hide email addresses from app developers. Even if this person never tries to sell me things, that rule is clearly meant to enable other people to do so. It frames "sending personalized emails" as though: 1) Th…

Caught me. I thought I was close to getting away with this, but alas, you've found that I am a saboteur from the International Brigades of Devious Developers and all I am hoping for is for public opinion to change so I can get my fellow criminals more email addresses

Now seriously, I have said time and time again that I have no issues with Apple ID. I have a problem with how Apple forced it on me. Not nice

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#313

Post by wetjen »

I think you need to shorten the copy a bit.

“Since we were coerced into supporting Apple’s sign on with our iOS app, we’re sandbagging them in return by not supporting their sign-on here.”

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#314

Post by djrogers »

collaborative wrote: post #175
qeternity wrote: post #125

Anyone who puts privacy in quotes has totally lost the plot. Is it really so inconceivable to some two-bit developer that I absolutely do trust Apple more than I trust them? Hell, I trust Apple more than I trust Facebook and Google. Apple ID is my go to SSO these days. Is Apple perfect? No. But this is a game of lesser of evils.

Hi, here the 2-bit dev You don't need to choose between Apple, FB, or Google. You can sign up with your email address, which means these companies get no analytics on your behavior The reason "privacy" is in quotes is that some of us have started seeing through what Apple really means every time they use the word. As the EU's Executive Vice-President Margrethe Vestager has recently said regarding their Apple probe, p…

> You can sign up with your email address

You’re still missing it - we don’t trust YOU with our email address.

Before today we didn’t know who you are or what you stand for, and we didn’t trust you with our email address. After today, I’m sure I wouldn’t trust you with my private relay address, as you clearly care very little about your users.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#315

Post by skuthus »

jasode wrote: post #273
collaborative wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To this date, I have sent 0 marketing emails trying to sell stuff. Heck, I don't even try to sell anything, I develop out of love and passion. The only reason email is needed is for password recovery But yes, Apple is great. Again, Apple is great. Apple good, good good good

To this: >To this date, I have sent 0 marketing emails trying to sell stuff. Heck, I don't even try to sell anything, I develop out of love and passion. The only reason email is needed is for password recovery And your other reply in the thread: >Frankly, I couldn't care less about whether you trust the app or not The fact is, I send 0 emails and privacy and security are top priorities. [...] TBH I am a bit tired of…

To be fair, Apple users only care about privacy when it suits them - 5-6 years ago, it was not a priority of any apple user and many mocked non-apple people for caring about it. If apples handing it to you, it must be important, or so the thinking seems to go

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#316

Post by Bud »

collaborative wrote: post #277
yalogin wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing it on you is what gives their users the privacy assurance/functionality of using the app and not giving the apps their emails. They want you to redesign your app so that you don’t rely more n mail to provide functionality. It’s a good thing, even for you.

I don't dispute that it is a good thing. I object to the method of implementing it by force I am an Apple customer as much as an iPhone user is. But Apple chooses to treat me as an employee, after having charged me (and paid me nothing). Do I have the right to be upset? Could they not have sweetened AppleID by encouraging users to ask devs to implement it or even by reducing our dev annual fee by some $? I think it w…

I think you need to review what "by force" actually means.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#317

Post by cwizou »

Sebb767 wrote: post #306
cwizou wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the angle of "Sorry, Apple ID only works on Apple devices." Except it's inaccurate, it works on Android, Windows and in browsers https://support.apple.com/kb/HT211687 Agreed on all other points though, if you want to garner sympathy from your users, that's definitely not how to do it.

> Except it's inaccurate, it works on Android, Windows and in browsers I'm pretty sure there is an implied "on this app" in there. But I agree that the formulation could be seen as ambiguous.

Yep but that should be made clear and not just implied, because at the end of the day, their users who signup with Apple will be unable to use their web app because of the developer choice not to implement it (which is definitely their right not to do so, they can handle the support), and not Apple not giving them the APIs.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#318

Post by Bud »

collaborative wrote: post #206
martimarkov wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your post I get that you don’t particularly care about the users who use you it app as you are not offering any way to transition users. I think apple cares about their users and platform, they just care about your passion project and I can understand how that triggers you. But the users belong to the apple ecosystem. You are essentially a guest there and more importantly the user has a choice to privacy. Most o…

I do care about my users. That's pretty much all I think of all day. Send me a support request? You will have my undivided attention, for free! But please tell me, how else can I push back on Apple's bad behavior? In war, there are collateral victims. And I, a dude who's almost a nobody, is willing to take on Apple by any means necessary when they do this kind of stuff Respect is earned, and it is high time Apple lea…

Yes. Respect is earned. Apple has earned it, and you haven't.

Please review what "war" means, also.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#319

Post by p2t2p »

collaborative wrote: post #133
sbuk wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equally, developers need to respect their users. I don't want to have to have a Facebook or Google account to use your product. Why should I be interested in your app if you force me you use either of those options? They were also involved in PRISM and both have far worse track records with privacy than Apple. More importantly, why should I trust you with PII?

Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails: 1 - Activation email with activation code to ensure the person actually owns the email address (non-OAUTH sign-up) 2 - Password recovery for when they have forgotten their password. Yes, a user doesn't need this with OAUTH but sometimes they will have forgotten that they used OAUTH to start with and need to si…

> Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails

I don't care. I don't trust you. I don't trust any of modern devs, I see every other new shiny crap on the internet only as an attempt to extort me of data and/or money (subscription) now. Before Apple introduced that feature I was using email aliases in my Fastmail. Need to register in new service - go to Fastmail, generate an alias for some weird domain they've got, setup filter for it to go to "dodgy" folder and then register.

Now I don't need to do that anymore, Apple automated that for me.

And thank's Apple it also forced guys like you to allow me to use that automation. At least on their platform.

For same reason the only way I buy a subscription is through an in-app-purchase - because I can just to go App Store and cancel it and don't need to deal with people like you. I remember like an year ago I was waiting for a refund for a cancelled subscription and my emails were ignored and the only way to get the attention was to open a dispute in PayPal. Yet another supplier-hostile but consumer-friendly company. Thanks god they exist.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#320

Post by hombre_fatal »

raxxorrax wrote: post #251
collaborative wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails: 1 - Activation email with activation code to ensure the person actually owns the email address (non-OAUTH sign-up) 2 - Password recovery for when they have forgotten their password. Yes, a user doesn't need this with OAUTH but sometimes they will have forgotten that they used OAUTH to start with and need to si…

It should also be mentioned that email doesn't generally provide any information. hobgoblin33@ussr.ru doesn't carry much info.

You're underestimating email. People reuse their email address, so it's not as benign as you think.

Just googling someone's email is a start. But worse actors can find your email on a combolist or figure out what other services you use. Just knowing someone's email is the first step to social engineering a customer service backdoor, for example.

AppleID specifically helps users avoid all this with trivial per-app email address generation, and that's something our tools should have given us a decade ago.

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