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Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

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Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#151
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, Tesla isn't unprofitable anymore (even if you remove the EV credits)

How about if you remove their bitcoin and doge earnings.

You are spreading misinformation. Their Q2 earnings were out recently. They made over 1b in GAAP profits in Q2 while recording a book loss of about 32m on their Bitcoin holdings. They don’t record any Dogecoin on their books. At least report facts.

https://ir.tesla.com/_flysystem/s3/sec/000095017021000524/ts...

Their Q1 earnings recorded only about 100m in profits from Bitcoin.

Do some math.

Hate on him all you like but at least report on facts.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's really good at raising money. Which is a skill. An incredibly useful skill, and arguably more important for someone in the position of CEO. He's grabbed $20+ Billion for Tesla. He's grabbed multiple Billions for SpaceX. Its a totally different skill than his persona identifies with. No one else I know of in the modern market has successfully grabbed as much money from people as he has. --------- Pretty much ever…

You know that both of these companies are profitable, right?

You know that Tesla's $1 Billion/quarter profits pales in comparison to Toyota's $7 Billion/quarter, right? And yet, Tesla is "worth more" as a company than Toyota, Nissan, Volkswagen, GM, and Ford put together.

And there are a myriad of long-term issues being put out on display here. Such as the FSD not working (promised "Coast-to-Coast" Full self driving back in 2017). Or the huge uptick in Model3 / Model Y quality complaints (coinciding with these stories about how rushed and impromptu the assembly lines were, such as what is discussed in the article).

--------

That's the thing. Every year, Elon comes back to the market with a story for why the stock is worth even more money than before (he needs to keep doing this to get another $5 Billion from a secondary offering). Its so predictable.

Elon says "this is the last raise I need". He creates some kind of "Hype Day", be it the battery-swap day, or solar tiles day, or some other promise he has no intent on actually delivering (or at a minimum: has no plans to actually deploy. Ex: Neither Cybertruck nor Tesla-Semi seem to have any concrete plans).

He uses that hype to generate real money for the company. The hype results in real money getting raised (ex: Cybertruck reservations). He uses the Cybertruck reservations to go to the stock market and extract more money from investors (Look at all of these reservations, we'll all be rich), so investors give him money too.

Then 5 years later, everyone has collective amnesia and forgets that Elon promised battery swaps, self-inserting "snake chargers", or full-self-driving to actually drive coast-to-coast, or "solar tiles'. Just in time for the new hype project and everyone hands money to Elon Musk again.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#153
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound a bit weird but haven't you noticed they all are psychopaths? Although high functioning ones. Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezoz... These are not healthy people mentally. But they are rich and powerful.

They're not psychopaths, they're just disconnected from your perspective. They've got other stuff on their mind and it's hard for them to put themselves in your shoes. Are you a psychopath for driving your car for a holiday trip, even though there's people dying in 49 degrees heat in Greece? It's really not that different from Jeff Bezos flying his spacecraft. Not that I'm saying it's ok, obviously Bezos's company is…

>People keep saying this as if they're somehow super powerful because there's a big number next to their name on the Forbes list.

>Bill Gates couldn't eradicate polio >Jeff Bezos 20 years before his spacecraft >Zuckerberg so nervous at his senate hearing

Totally not super powerful people.

Also, there are lots of tax free ways to get to your money without selling stocks.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#154
post #115

This reads almost identically to Steve Jobs history at Apple revealed in Walter Isaacson's biography of him. > But it’s a difficult and exhausting book. Jobs was a world-class asshole. He was a selfish, self-centered man who heaped abuse on everyone around him. After a few hours, the catalog of tantrums, tirades and put-downs wears thin. You may have huge admiration for Jobs’s accomplishments, but it can be hard to h…

Musk seems to be more of an asshole, like someone affecting an exaggerated version of his image of Steve Jobs.

There are entirely valid critiques of Steve Jobs. His overly restrictive and proprietary technology being a major one. But the myth that he was some kind of social monster is ahistorical.

Steve Jobs was very opinionated, honest, and unafraid to tell people what he thought. At times he was overly harsh, no doubt, and sometimes a bit of an asshole. He was "world-class" but not a "world-class asshole" by any reasonable measure. At best, he was a very minor league asshole.

The world-class assholes in business are the people pouring pollutants into rivers/air or selling cigarettes/alcohol/opioids.

Anyone who thinks Steve Jobs was a terrible person has no perspective whatsoever. They're evaluating his agreeableness against the typical bullshitting-manager at Google or Microsoft. People promoted specifically because they're mediocre people-pleasers.

The proof that Steve Jobs was not a "world-class asshole" is that he had many friends. And many people that consider their time working with him to be the height of their career, even if it was also very intense.

There are a grand total of 3 stories about mistakes he made (and eventually made up for) in his entire life, all of which he made in his early 20s or earlier. As much as people try to tear him down, he lived a better, fuller, and more positively impactful life than all but a handful of people in history.

He was superficially obnoxious to many, but fundamentally kind person. He hurt no one and provided incredible value to billions.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#155
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't put lives at risk. Everyone knows it's not actually full self driving. One of the following must be true: 1) Tesla FSD actually is L5 full self driving 2) Tesla FSD is just driver assist and everyone knows it 3) People are dying in Tesla crashes at a massive rate I doubt that it's 1 and I know it's not 3 because this would have been noticed immediately by the agencies that track this sort of thing and w…

> Everyone knows it's not actually full self driving. So "FSD" doesn't actually mean "Full Self Driving" then? So this is not deceptive advertising then by Tesla Inc.? I'm assuming that you also have known that FSD was also advertised as 'Full Level 5 Autonomy' by Tesla Inc. as well which was due for completion in 2020 or early 2021? [0] Where are the 'robotaxis' that was advertised and due for 2020 then? [0] So you…

Well then I guess you should ask for your money back. You have a reasonable case for a refund.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#156
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may sound a bit weird but haven't you noticed they all are psychopaths? Although high functioning ones. Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezoz... These are not healthy people mentally. But they are rich and powerful.

They're not psychopaths, they're just disconnected from your perspective. They've got other stuff on their mind and it's hard for them to put themselves in your shoes. Are you a psychopath for driving your car for a holiday trip, even though there's people dying in 49 degrees heat in Greece? It's really not that different from Jeff Bezos flying his spacecraft. Not that I'm saying it's ok, obviously Bezos's company is…

If any of these people dropped dead today the technology and those that can steward it remain.

If they’re under so much stress and disconnected from the average person, it’s time to stop crowning kings.

None of us have to believe in extreme ownership, and enabling stressed people, as it just leads to abuse.

Not just abuse of individual employees, but society, our personal agency, and environment.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#157
post #8

I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. I suspect there's something really dark with him that originates in his childhood (suffered through horrific bullying and a hellishly awful father).

Is it? When staff during my interview at Spacex several years back told me they work for a billionaire but accept lower wages because it's about the mission and not their own well being... I knew all I needed to know about Elon Musk.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#158
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. That is a reality distortion field. The Tesla CEO is good at that and it reflects on the deceptive advertisement of FSD and the actual reality of it being unfinished and still unsafe and it puts the lives of m…

No it doesn't put lives at risk. Everyone knows it's not actually full self driving. One of the following must be true: 1) Tesla FSD actually is L5 full self driving 2) Tesla FSD is just driver assist and everyone knows it 3) People are dying in Tesla crashes at a massive rate I doubt that it's 1 and I know it's not 3 because this would have been noticed immediately by the agencies that track this sort of thing and w…

> No it doesn't put lives at risk. Everyone knows it's not actually full self driving.

Most people I've talked to cannot accurately articulate the boundary of its operational capability, and there is a growing number of injured and dead "FSD" drivers that seem to have very muddied expecations of what "full self-driving" means.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#159
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to read fabricated facts if you simply can follow Elon on Twitter. If you put down the rose-tinted glasses, you see that he puts out a lot of dumb stuff and many lies.

Yes, but he is also building a massive friggin reusable rocket and has built rocket boosters that land. He is emotional because he cares about changing the world for the better. He is a weird dude that has a weird sense of humor. Jumping down his throat for bad jokes seems like it actively hinders human kind's progress.

It's sensible to both not put anyone on a pedestal nor completely villify someone. He's polarizing, for sure.

For me, he puts rockets in space, but also spreads a lot of misinformation or lies for self gain. I also don't think just because he's influential that his missteps should be labeled as eccentric versus selfish

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#160

[flagged]

I don't see why everything needs to be so black and white. Must we put up with literally anything and everything, in order to appease the poor downtrodden billionaires who will threaten to take their ball and go home?

By your logic, I should leave America, because I am certainly paying a higher tax rate than most of these people. Why is it that some people fetishize the accumulation of vast amounts of capital to the extent that they would support those people fleeing the country to avoid any responsibility for what they've wrought?

All because a few people on Twitter (protip: don't use Twitter) say mean things?

I don't really understand where it is in that natural order of things that, the more money you have, the more unquestioned you should be. That the more money you have, the more you should escape criticism, taxation, etc. What drives presumably ordinary people to put these superhero rich people above any reproach whatsoever?

Some people, for no apparent reason, feel that to be pro-capitalism, we must REJECT any rules, and applaud those who skirt rules they disagree with.

Does this mean, because I have a fast car, I should be able to drive as fast as I want, but someone in an economy car should have to follow the speed limit? That the speed limit is more unfair to me?

I'm very pro-markets, but I don't understand why this means there should be no regulation, and we should be more sympathetic to the rich than to the poor; why the rich should be able to skip out on laws and regulation just to keep them happy.

It's only reasonable to create a socially-useful playing field, and ask that everyone follow the rules.

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